Denon AVR 5803 and External Power Amps???

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Rosty, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. Rosty

    Rosty Auditioning

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    I recently bought Denon AVR 5803 and am planning to use it with external power amplifiers. The external amps (ADCOM GFA-565) will be connected to the pre-out jacks and I will only use the external amps to power 3 front channels.

    1. Do I have to somehow "disable" the internal power amps for these channels? Will operating the internal amps with no speakers connected have any detrimental effects?

    2. There are two "trigger out " DC jacks on the back of Denon AVR 5803. One is marked 12 V 20ma, another one does not have any marking regarding voltage and current. What is the output voltage of this second jack and what is the max current it can sustain?

    3. I will be using with my power amplifiers the switched power receptacles in my power conditioning strip. These receptacles can be triggered with 10 - 30 V 30ma DC signal. Can I use the 12 V 20ma trigger outpoint of my receiver to control it?



    Thanks.
     
  2. Robert_Dufresne

    Robert_Dufresne Stunt Coordinator

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    Rosty

    With a receiver like the 5803 you don't need an external power amp unless you plan to do your listening in a very large room or at insane levels.[​IMG]
     
  3. Rosty

    Rosty Auditioning

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    Well, unfortunately you are wrong.

    I have this receiver for two weeks now (driving Paradigm Studio's 100 v.3 fronts, Paradigm CC-570 center, full size Advent Heritage surrounds and small Yamaha monitors surround in the back)and here are my observations:

    It lacks power! Really, for a 26'x16'7.5' room when you go to a reference level (0dB) listening to 5 channel music the receiver starts distorting signal.

    I know that it is the receiver's problem because I've had a H/K AVR 7300 for a month before the Denon and H/K was much cleaner at reference level. You know this feeling - when an amp approaches it's limits sound becomes overly harsh and feels unpleasantly "loud".

    Denon is OK for stereo listening when it clips at around 200W per channel on 8 ohm load. Unfortunately with 5 channels driven it drops to 110W, with 7 channels driven - to 87W. It is silly to expect it to do better considering the size of it's power supply.

    So in order to offload the most critical front channels I'll be using Adcom GFA-565 monoblocks which produce honest 300W per channel on 8 Ohm.

    Denon AVR5803 has an excellent preamplifier/processor. I don't think there are separates which can match this receiver speaking of DAC and ADC cirqits. It's user interface is much better then H/K. I found the Atkis RC-8000 remote to be very well thought and easyly programmable via my PC. So I'll be using it's best part - preamp/processor and let its internal amplifier take care of only 4 surround channels.
     
  4. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    For that price if it lacks power, I would TAKE IT BACK and invest in some decent separates. I have heard this thing and I would have to agree that it's power was underwhelming. I would still say any decent separates would best it in sound quality. B&K, Rotel, Lexicon, etc....

    BTW, "0" is not reference. Reference is the point on your SPL meter at which the receiver actually hits 75dB or 85dB.

    Do you have all your speakers set to large? Try setting them to small if not. Your room isn't all that large, my previous room was just a hair smaller at 25x14x9.5, and 100W was plenty. In my new room, 19x20 w/high vaulted ceilings and 4 Ohm speakers, I needed external amplification with my Marantz 8300.

    *edit

    1) You don't need to do anything to the amps internally, they are simply not used.

    2) RTFM

    3) Based on what you said, I'd say yes.
     
  5. Rosty

    Rosty Auditioning

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    Well, I was able to buy a pair of used Adcom GFA-565 for $650 and IMHO nothing I've heard before can match these power amps (And I auditioned a lot of high end gear!). Considering I got Denon AVR 5803 for 50% of MSRP (I bought the last new, seald in box unit left at Sound Advise chain of the audio stores in Florida when they were running fire sale last month) it is still a very good deal. I love Denon's preamp/processor. "Pure Direct" mode is unbelievably good for stereo listening and THX Ultra Cinema2 and EX modes are excellent for movies. It switches 3 component video lines for me and I love its remote. When running two front channels through GFA-565's Denon is able to handle the rest with flying colors.

    Works for me...
     
  6. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
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    Hello Rosty,

    I am supprised that you are having that result from your 5803 to be perfectly honest. I was at CES in 2003 and Denon did a demo with the 5803 with no external power amps and they where using M&K speakers. They where using a DTS demo dvd and multi channel music to demo the flagship reciever. I never did at any time notice any distortion as they did push the reciever and after the demo it was cool to the touch. I am wondering if you got a bad unit? As far as power supplys go heck I have a Yamaha 995 reciever that I power altec voice of the theaters with dual 15" woofers, polk center with two pair of advent marbles for my rear channels and if the yamaha can handle that the Denon should handle what you have. Especially if it can handle the M&K's.

    As far as the Klipsch speakers go I have set up a Yamaha reviever with Klipsch and imho it sounded great. But Adcom and Rotel should sound nice with the klipsch. If you want a serious multi channel amp that can run just about any thing and give you plent of headroom and clairity. I would highly recomend the Cinenova power amp that thing is a monster.[​IMG]
     
  7. Shiu

    Shiu Second Unit

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    Even the 3805 can do 5X115 0.1% THD, 2X218.4W at 0.1%, 243W at 1% into 4 ohms(HTM) and 7X93 (S&V). I would have thought that the 5803 can do much better, not worse.

    Regardless, those GFA-565 are going to help for sure. I had my old GFA-555 powered the front channels for a while and it did a good job at very loud level. I never disabled the internal amps, nor did I know how.
     
  8. Drew_W

    Drew_W Screenwriter

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    The fact you got a good price on the 5803 should enable you to sell it for a good price and invest in some much better separates as John mentioned. That price range shouldn't really be receiver territory.
     
  9. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

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    I had a 5803 for about 6 months once... sold it, moved to B&K seperates. It was a good move at the time.
     
  10. Jake S

    Jake S Stunt Coordinator

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    2 words:
    Current limiting.

    Don't buy current limiting designs (japanese receivers) if you need real power.
     
  11. Will.MA

    Will.MA Stunt Coordinator

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    Wow. So many responses to your thread Rusty. Too bad there weren't more helpful suggestions to assist you in connecting your amp to your Denon instead of questioning your motivation for investing in the Adcom.

    I soon plan to purchase the same amp, but unlike yourself, I plan for it to supplement my Yamaha 5790 in the front three channels. So I too am interested in a solution for the remote trigger. For what it's worth, it is not that I desire to playback movies at a higher amplitude than the yammy is currently capable of. I'd simply like to improve the overall quality of the audio at modest listening levels. I strongly suspect outsourcing the amplification will help achieve this end. I guess my ears will be the final judge and jury in that respect.
     

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