Denon AVR-3805 connecting to HD receiver

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Sameer Patel, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. Sameer Patel

    Sameer Patel Auditioning

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    Hello. I'm new to the forum, and wanted to see if anyone has had an issue similar to mine or knows of something I need to do to get my issue fixed.
    I just purchased a new Denon AVR-3805 and hooked it up to my system. I have a Samsung SIR-T360 HD box for directv HD. I am connecting it to the Denon via Component cables and optical for the audio. After doing this I set the inputs to the correct source and am not able to view a picture. Instead of a picture I am getting a screen on my TV with streaming lines. Almost as if there is a signal, but it is not coming through clearly. I can hear the audio fine, but the video is just these lines. So I thought of doing some debugging…….

    First I have a denon DVD player hooked up to one of the other component input ports on the back of the receiver. I checked to ensure the DVD player works and it works fine. The back of the Denon has 3 component inputs and 1 output for the TV. So first I checked to make sure that the HD receiver was sending a signal out. To do this I plugged the cables directly into the TV’s other component input. I did see video so I then knew that there was a good signal coming from the HD receiver and also the cables were fine. I then plugged the component cable from the HD box to the component inputs on the back of the Denon receiver. I used the same input ports as I used with the DVD player since I knew they were able to send the DVD signal fine to the TV. This insured that the plugs were working fine. I then set the inputs on the Denon Receiver to match the new setup and then switched to the source on the receiver for the HD. Again I got the same issue as before.

    Next I undid the connection I did above and used an S-Video cable from the HD box to the receiver. I then adjusted the inputs on the receiver to coincide with the new setup and was able to see the HD signal and hear the audio as the optical audio is working fine. So this tells me that there is something wrong with the receiver and how it is decoding the signal from component cables attached to the HD box. What bothers me is that the DVD player using the Component cables is working fine.

    What could be different about the signal from the HD box? Has anyone heard of this or experienced this kind of issue else where? I could not find any help after searching on Google.

    Thanks in advance.

    Sam
     
  2. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    What resolution are you sending out of your HD box? DVD is mostly 480p, but you can have higher res coming out of the HD box as it can scale to match the native res on your TV.

    Maybe the Denon doesn't like anything above 480p.
     
  3. Reginald Trent

    Reginald Trent Screenwriter

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    Quote:

    Maybe the Denon doesn't like anything above 480p.


    I believe that is your answer so bypass the reciever and connect directly into the TV if you want to see higher res.

    BTW An S-cable cannot reproduce a HD signal.
     
  4. Sameer Patel

    Sameer Patel Auditioning

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    Thanks Guys! That was exactly the issue. Denon does not like anything above the 480p. I had the HD box outputing 1080. I guess I will have to figure out what I want as far as resolution goes. The only issue I have with sending the components directly into the TV is that when i change the source on the denon, I'll have to change the inputs on the TV. more of a lazy factor verses actually an issue, but depending on the quality improvement I may have to do it.

    Any comments regarding the quality differenct between 480 and 1080? I know that it is a significant improvement in resolution, but is the change mentioned above something you all would want to do if you were in my position. Or is it negligable considering today's TV signals and visibility to the naked eye?

    Thanks again so much for your help.

    Sam.
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    If your Denon won't support HD, I suppose right to the display is the answer.


    I have run HD 1080i over quite a few Denon AVR's without issue. Sounds like a general connection issue somehow from the description.
     
  6. Sameer Patel

    Sameer Patel Auditioning

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    John,
    I have tried to run the cable to the Denon multiple different ways including the other component ports. They all still yielded the same result. Basically the flicker screen I mentioned earlier. So when I down graded to 480, it showed up fine. I have talked to the store I purchased the unit from and they have ordered a new one for me. I guess I will try the new unit and see if it will accept the 1080i resolution. I also tried the 720 resolution and that did not work. Do you think this might be a software issue in the Denon? Maybe an upgrade maybe required to get it to work.

    Have you heard of anyone else having this resolution issue with a Denon AVR-3805? What kinds of Denon AVR's have been successful at accepting the 1080i resolution?

    Thanks,

    Sam
     
  7. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    Glad to hear that got you over the hump Sameer.

    This sort of thing should be mentioned in your manual. Does it say what resolutions it can handle?
     
  8. Sameer Patel

    Sameer Patel Auditioning

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    Mike,
    Thanks again for the help. I must have really searched through the manual and didn't find anything regarding resolution restrictions. That is why I am surprised that it does not handle 1080i. I'll check again but am still going to talk to my sales person regarding the issue and see if the problem is specific to all 3805's or just mine. I'll keep the site updated so if anyone else has a problem they know what a resolution might be.

    Sam
     
  9. Sameer Patel

    Sameer Patel Auditioning

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    Mike,
    Just checked the manual again after downloading it from the denon website (URL below if anyone needs it) and did not find anything regarding resolution restrictions. That for sure tells me it is fishy that the receiver is only working with 480 resolution. I'll post what I find out.

    Thanks,

    Sam

    usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/356.asp
     
  10. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    Might want to drop a line or call Denon Support also (is there still such and animal?). Might be a defect in your unit.
     
  11. John S

    John S Producer

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    Something is not right....



    This link would indicate that it very high grade switching.

    http://usa.denon.com/AVR-3805_Final_productsheet.pdf



    I would gripe to somebody. or something else very strange is going on here.

    Anything rated 50mhz and higher should be golden. My Denon 4802's component video is rated much lower and fine with HD.
     
  12. Sameer Patel

    Sameer Patel Auditioning

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    I looked at the manual and did not find a number for denon support. i did talk to my sales guy who I bought the unit from and he has ordered me a new one to pick up on Monday. Hopefully once I get the unit by midweek next week and plug it in, we'll see a change. I'll keep you guys updated.

    Thanks again for all the help in trying to debug this issue.

    Sam

    P.s. John, regarding your Denon 4802's component video being rated lower....what is the HD resolution your sending to the unit? Is it greater than 480p? Thanks.
     
  13. John S

    John S Producer

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    yes, I send 1080i HD via both my set top OTA box, and my Upconverting over component Zenith DVB-318....


    480p is really called ED, extended Definition and does not require a very high rating at all by comparisons.
     
  14. bradGV

    bradGV Auditioning

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    I've got a little bit older Denon AVR-1804 (which is only about a $400 model compared to the $1000 you've got) and I have no problem running 1080i out of my cable box through the receiver. I would say that you probably have a defective unit. I'm looking to upgrade to a higher end Denon when I do my basement theater and that would really put a kink in things if the 3805 won't pass through an HD signal. If you can't get it to work I'd say go out and get a Logitech Harmony remote, they can be had for less than a $100 and can do all your switching automatically, best investment I ever made!
     
  15. Sameer Patel

    Sameer Patel Auditioning

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    Brad,
    I'll let you know what I find out about the 3805 and if I can get it to work with the 1080i resolution.

    regarding the Harmony remote...... i already got one of those a while ago. With all the other remotes and setting I needed for my own use but even more for my Wife. She had a hard time remembering all the settings. i would have to agree that it is one of the best investments I have made in Audio/Video. It makes things so easy and adding equipment to it is such a breeze one you get past the initial setup. Worth every penny.

    Sam
     
  16. Mike_J_Potter

    Mike_J_Potter Second Unit

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    Shouldn't be a problem to switch or pass HD, I have a Denon 2805 and I switch multiple 1080I sources, in addition to 480p and 480I sources.
     
  17. Sameer Patel

    Sameer Patel Auditioning

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    Alright guys here is what the latest is:

    I got the new Denon Receiver and plugged it all in. The signal now is having no issues coming out of the Reciver at 1080i. So I guess my old box had a glitch. I was pretty pumped now that the system works. Unfortunately I have a new problem...

    I don't know if anyone else has this issue, but I think it is related primarily to my Samsung TV. I have a Samsung DLP TV that has 3 sets of component in plugs. The first set allows inputs of 480p and 480i. The second and third component in plugs both allow 480p, 720, 1080i. My issue is this. My regular cable box does not have component outs so I have connected a S-Video cable from the cable box to the Denon reciever. I know the Denon is supposed to "upconvert" the signal from S-video. My issue is trying to find out what the "upconverted" signal is coming out of the Denon as? Is is 480i or 480p? Currently my HD & DVD signal is fine as long as the Monitor output from the denon is plugged into either the 2nd or 3rd component ports on my Samsung TV. The regular cable box signal does NOT show up when plugged into the 2nd or 3rd ports on the TV. If I plug in the Monitor out from the Denon into the 1st port on the TV (the one that accepts only 480i/480p), the regular cable box signal DOES show up but now the HD in 1080i does not. My deduction is that the Denon is upconverting to 480i not 480p and therefore since the TV's 2nd and 3rd ports don't accept 480i the signal is lost. So am i correct in assuming that the Denon is outputing 480i? I looked all through the manual and could not find this specific info regarding upconverted signal. Do any of you other Denon owners know this info or have similar issues if you own a Samsung TV?

    One other interesting note is that when I have the HD connected via the Denon and the monitor out from the reciever connected to the 2nd or 3rd ports on my TV the signal is Fine and I get 1080i resolution. The second I hit the "setup" button on the remote to get the on screen setup menu, my signal is lost on the TV. I am wondering if the signal for setup is sent in 480i and that is why I loose the signal. Once I exit the setup menu the HD signal comes back. Do both of these issues seem related to my 480i issue?

    Thanks again in advance for your help, and let me know if you have any questions. I look forward to all your responses.

    Sam
     
  18. John S

    John S Producer

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    I still think it is best to just run the svideo video out to the display as well and not use the converted.


    I think it is converting it to component 480i in all honesty. Still only a few AVR's that will provide progressive scan for all sources.
     
  19. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    480i is standard definition. You get that from your cable box. If the Denon is upconverting it would most likely be to 480p. 'Next generation' AVR's will scale to 720p/1080i. Your Samsung should be able to detect 480p. I know for my HK I can turn on/off this scaling. Do you have it enabled? If not, then that may be your problem.

    Not all AVR's have the ability to output the OSD (on-screen display) via the component out's, so you may need to have the 'monitor out' connection from your AVR to the TV for just that purpose. So that means you may need to have one set of connections for viewing, and one for OSD. Sounds lame, but true. Consult your manual.
     
  20. Sameer Patel

    Sameer Patel Auditioning

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    Mike,
    Thanks for the info. I looked through the manual for scaling and did not find that in there. I basically downloaded the PDF manual from Denon's website and then did a find on it for Scaling. Nothing returned so I assume I don't have the option of turning it on or off. Do any other Denon users know if this can be done on our machines?

    Regarding the OSD, I really don't need it now that I have all my primary stuff setup so if I can get the S-Video problem fixed, then I can do without the OSD. I just want to be able to get all the inputs to the Denon to work on the TV without multiple cables to the TV. Worst case i will follow John's advice above and link in the S-Video directly to the TV and run components for the DVD and HD.

    Thanks,

    Sam
     

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