Denon 9000 Super Dvd Player?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Carl Mulder, Feb 4, 2003.

  1. Carl Mulder

    Carl Mulder Stunt Coordinator

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    The new Denon DVD player has a 14bit video chip, can anybody tell me how good this player is?
    Ive heard it's absolutely amazing, and with the chroma but fixed in the new players makes it even better.
    Is this player as good as people make out?
    respond please.

    Carl.
     
  2. James Stierman

    James Stierman Stunt Coordinator

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    It has excellent video quailty, we are running it on a mitz 73 inch gold plus. You could probly get similar video quality in the 1000-1500 price range. The audio when teamed with the 5803 is incredible. The DVD-9000 and 5803 combo is the best on the market for DVD-Audio (using the Denon Link) in my opinion.
     
  3. Carl Mulder

    Carl Mulder Stunt Coordinator

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    im want for the 2900 player from denon. has sacd and dvd audio, 12bit video, 108 mhz. great stuff.
    does the 9000 clear up all artifacting problems or do you still see them?
     
  4. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    The Denon 9000's ultimate video power may be in it's interlaced output into external video processors that require interlaced in. The 9000 may be the only DVD player in the world doing 8X interlaced over-sampling ...... not absolutely sure on the 9000 being the only one, however.

    I have a chroma bug free Denon 3800 with 12-bit, 108MHz video DAC's and Noise Shaped Video filtering just like the 9000 does and the PQ is georgeous.

    Notice here: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...rch&articles=5

    that both the 3800 and 9000 as shipped have Y/C Delay. I have eliminated the Y/C Delay in my 3800 for even higher PQ performance. I understand that Denon is working on elimination of Y/C Delay in their 3800 and 9000 units by us owners being able to use a firmware patch CD - but I don't know when Denon will have this ready for us. [​IMG]
     
  5. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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  6. Carl Mulder

    Carl Mulder Stunt Coordinator

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    Phil Nichols, do you know what chroma 4;2;0 icp is?
    because the denon player fails on this.
    though the denon has the best progressive test results ever and is an amazing player.
    whats this icp?
     
  7. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    Carl, look here for what all the tests mean:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ut-1-2003.html

    In particular, here's what I copied from the above Shootout 3 explanation of 4:2:0 ICP (Definitely not a big deal and debatable as to whether it should be a "Core" rating criteria. This definitely loads the testing in favor of a Faroudja patent and I believe a new competitive circuit in the Iscan Ultra external video processor, IMHO. This is one video PQ enhancement I choose to ignore for quite some time.):

    "Test Name: 4:2:0 Interlaced Chroma Problem

    What it Measures: Does the player have a deinterlacer or postprocessor that hides the chroma artifacts in 4:2:0 interlaced material.

    Pass/Fail Criteria: Player must mask chroma errors in interlaced material.

    Disc(s)/Chapters used: More Tales of the City, Chapter 4
    Weight: 5

    Notes: This is in some ways expecting too much from current players, given that the methods for mitigating this problem have only just become known. But we thought it was a useful criterion. Next shootout, the weight will probably be higher."
     
  8. Carl Mulder

    Carl Mulder Stunt Coordinator

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    Why can't we have 8x oversampling on progressive outputs?
    Will this change with progressive transfers just around the corner. ie dve, joe kane.
     
  9. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    Carl,

    8X oversampling on progressive would require 216MHz video DAC's. I've heard that Analog Devices Inc. is working on these.

    Denon fully exploits the 108MHz video DAC's in the 9000 by offering both 4X progressive (requires 108MHz) and 8X interlaced (requires 108MHz). [​IMG]
     
  10. Carl Mulder

    Carl Mulder Stunt Coordinator

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    so what is better quality? progressive or interlaced?
    could I keep the denon on the interlaced mode, and use progressive on a tv perhaps.
    Not that I have a tv that can do this, but Im think of getting a samsung dlp tv that has farouja processing.
    do you think that I could get some results that way?
    Or is the progressive in the Denon flawless?
    Ive read the test results, its basically flaw for progressive.
    Im just hoping that the resolution is sharp.

    Unfortunately Im having to use a interlaced player, because my panasonic just failed to read discs, very strange.
    Interlaced, In my eyes looked terrible so Im deffinately after a great progressive player.

    do you know when digital video essentials is out on dvd?
     
  11. Ted Ross

    Ted Ross Second Unit

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    Hey, Phil if you hear that Denon has released a firmware fix for the y/c delay on the 3800 please let it known-its hard to find info on firmware releases for the 3800
     
  12. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    Ted,

    I will try to let the forums know something when I know something. I would hope that Stacey Spears let's us know before I find out, as he is the one that approached Denon on a possible 3800/9000 patch for Y/C Delay via firmware.

    However, it's quick and inexpensive to fix it yourself in the meantime. I fixed my 3800 last week. Just use the AVIA Y/C Delay screen and look at the red bars on the yellow background on the far right of the screen. Use Rat Shack 25 foot satellite cables for your component Pr and Pb runs and a 6 foot normal video cable for the Y run. This just about fixes it - at least the best you can visually resolve looking at the AVIA screen. I actually went fanatical last night and lenthened the Y run to 12 feet, while still leaving Pr and Pb at 25 feet each. Somewhere between 6 and 12 for Y is probably correct. It's the DIFFERENCE between the Y length and Pr/Pb lengths that evens up the timing so no delay between them remains. So, bottom line is that something in the ball park of a 19 to 13 foot length difference in the Y versus Pr/Pb signal cables gets rid of the 3800's (and 9000's) observable video timing error.
     
  13. Carl Mulder

    Carl Mulder Stunt Coordinator

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    so could I FIX THE Y/C DELAY?
    WHAT IS FIRMWARE?
     
  14. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    Carl,

    Yes ........ you could "negate" the Y/C Delay's affect by making Y/Pr/Pb timing difference errors be zero right where these signals enter your display by using individual unequal length Y/Pr/Pb cables as I describe above to go between your player and your display. Very easy and inexpensive.

    "Firmware" means you get a CD from Denon or Denon dealers to load into your player that automatically and permanently corrects the delay inside your 3800 or 9000. This would be just like we (some of us) did to get rid of the chroma bug in 3800's and 9000's.

    While you are waiting for Denon to release the CD patch disk solution you might want to just use unequal video cables. You then have a 3800 or 9000 with doggone near "perfect" video with only one red box left in the Shootout 3 rankings. Maybe this would put the 3800 and 9000 at the top of the rankings? [​IMG]
     

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