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Denon 6700 or 4700+ an amplifier? (1 Viewer)

JohnRice

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Thank you! I think I will go with the 4700 and buy an external amp. This will also allow me a future upgrade path for a better processor/receiver since the amp should hopefully last quite a bit longer than the processor/receiver.
It's probably worth noting John Dirk's problem with his Outlaw 5000. Unfortunately, options for 5 channels amps under $1k are limited aside from that one, now that Emotiva discontinued their 5-175.
 

George LL

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It's probably worth noting John Dirk's problem with his Outlaw 5000. Unfortunately, options for 5 channels amps under $1k are limited aside from that one, now that Emotiva discontinued their 5-175.

I am actually looking at the 7000x since, for another $220, adds 2 more channels and a bit more power.
 

JohnRice

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I am actually looking at the 7000x since, for another $220, adds 2 more channels and a bit more power.
I like the idea of a 7 channel amp, to drive all the front and side speakers, leaving the receiver to drive only the Atmos ones.
 

Dave Upton

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So you can manage your amp assignment without managing in the receiver?


And with the 3000/4000 series you can only set it to externalize 1 pair of speakers, so the suggestion to put LCR on an external makes even less sense?

There's nothing about this that requires amp assignment, you just use the pre-outs.

Since each out corresponds to a particular channel, it's dead simple.
Dave, is that equal power to all channels, or (hopefully) more power to three of them? Or... as D-Sonic is known to do, does it have optional configurations?
Dennis is planning on having more power for the LCR like he usually does. Not sure if he'll have as high power options for those three channels, but it will be a very comprehensive design of 3x500w/8 ohm, 6x220w/8 ohm.
 
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Dave Upton

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Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.

I don't think I'm contradicting myself here tho and you are comparing apples and oranges. On one hand you are talking about having external amps for 11+ channels. That's a non starter. On the other you are talking about having the complexity of managing channels that are not under the integrated amp's direct control.
So you can manage your amp assignment without managing in the receiver?


And with the 3000/4000 series you can only set it to externalize 1 pair of speakers, so the suggestion to put LCR on an external makes even less sense?

@Sam Posten , other than the replies you give to @JohnRice - I've never really seen you explain why you are so dead set against separates. You make references to complexity/not under the amps direct control, but that couldn't be further from the truth. You still seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how external amps/separates work. Plugging something into a channel's pre-out does not disable the onboard amp, nor does it require any control or configuration - it is called a pre-out because the signal is output pre-amplification.

Due to this, there is no setup at all other than setting trim levels during or after calibration. The pre-outs on a receiver that has them will feed a line-level signal to the external amplifier based on its current volume level. That level is slightly attenuated or boosted based on trim. At that point, all you have to do is watch content normally and use the AVR / Processor to control volume.

And 11 channels of external amplification is absolutely a valid approach, and not a non-starter by any means. Monoprice already has 11 channels in a single chassis, as does Emotiva and D-Sonic's launches soon.

As I believe I have explained before, spend the money on the amp once, and within 2 generations of technology you'll have broken even financially, all the while enjoying vastly superior sound. What's not to like, other than making room for the amp?
 

John Dirk

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Oops, I'm fairly certain John's amp is the 7140. My mistake.
That's correct. I passed on the 5000 specifically for the reason you stated above about having a single chassis with 7 channels.
 

Dave Upton

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If Dennis is up for it, I'm going to try to arrange a loaner of his new 11 channel amp. That way folks can ship it around and hear how good it is for themselves. There's a reason I have three of his amps in my house!
 

John Dirk

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If Dennis is up for it, I'm going to try to arrange a loaner of his new 11 channel amp. That way folks can ship it around and hear how good it is for themselves. There's a reason I have three of his amps in my house!

That would be awesome. Hope you can work it out. I've been anxiously awaiting this update since you mentioned it some time ago.
 

JohnRice

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And 11 channels of external amplification is absolutely a valid approach, and not a non-starter by any means. Monoprice already has 11 channels in a single chassis, as does Emotiva and D-Sonic's launches soon.
In my case, like a lot of people do, I have it split over three amplifiers. (2) five channel and (1) two channel, which also allows me to split them between A/C circuits. Also like a lot of people, I have multiple amps because the system has grown and evolved over the years, from 5.1 to the current 7.1.2 and eventually to 7.1.4 (with one spare channel left over) and since you can keep amplifiers for years, it made sense to simply add to what I already had as the channels grew.
 

John Dirk

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I have 2 D-Sonic amps, a seven channel one which I use to drive LCR and 4 atmos channels and a 2 channel one for my surround speakers (5.1.4 system). I am very happy with their performance.

At the moment I'm a little disillusioned with Outlaw Audio since my model 7140 which normally drives my rear stage and Atmos speakers is now sitting on a bench awaiting repair. The Acurus 3xA200 driving my front stage is very old and poorly regarded in audiophile circles so I might be in the market for some better quality power one of these days.

I'm very curious about D-Sonic. Would you mind sharing your particular models and how long you have had them in service?
 

Dave Upton

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At the moment I'm a little disillusioned with Outlaw Audio since my model 7140 which normally drives my rear stage and Atmos speakers is now sitting on a bench awaiting repair. The Acurus 3xA200 driving my front stage is very old and poorly regarded in audiophile circles so I might be in the market for some better quality power one of these days.

I'm very curious about D-Sonic. Would you mind sharing your particular models and how long you have had them in service?
John,

I will add my totally unasked for opinion too. I ran across D-Sonic when HTF needed a loaner amp for our last meet in CA. By total chance, the owner of D-Sonic Dennis Deacon lives about 30 minutes away from me. I called him up and asked if he'd be willing to help us out. He allowed me, a total stranger to come by his home and meet him and ensure I was a legit individual. He agreed on the spot when we met to loan us an M3a-6100-7 for the meet. This is the amp that is my main system amp to this day. 1500WPC for your LCR, fed by the top of the line Pascal modules, and a custom input designed by Dennis.

These amps embody effortless sound and total control over your woofers, due to their high damping factor. Hook the same pair of speakers up to one of these vs a class AB amp, and you'll hear the immediate difference in the bass.

I have heard the best on offer from Emotiva, Outlaw, Marantz, Schiit, Dartzeel and a lot of other audiophile brands. I now have 3 D-Sonic amps in my house. That is not a coincidence - it's just that they are so damn good, and so well priced for what you get.

Dennis has become a friend since we first met, and we regularly invite one another over to listen to music and critique each others systems. I can honestly say I've never known a more honest, genuine and humble person in this industry, and he is someone I would unreservedly refer others to.

If you do want to give D-Sonic a try, I am sure you won't regret it.
 

Mike2001

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Would you mind sharing your particular models and how long you have had them in service?
Sure. I bought them in February and they were delivered in late February. I had my whole upgraded system installed by the end of March, so they’ve been in service since then. I was attracted to class D amplification because I have my equipment stack in one column of a bookcase, surrounded by books on three sides. I wanted plenty of power/headroom without the worry about baking my books. The D-Sonics actually run hotter than I expected, but nowhere close to what class A/B would be. I had Sunfire amps in the 2000’s and they ran much hotter than the D-Sonics.

The models I have are the M3a-5400-7 (1500 W for each L/R channel, 800 W for C channel and 400 W for each of 4 atmos ceiling channels) and the M3a-800s (400 W for each surround channel). I run a 5.1.4 atmos setup with these. Cost averaged out to about $600 per channel.
 

JohnRice

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John,

I will add my totally unasked for opinion too. I ran across D-Sonic when HTF needed a loaner amp for our last meet in CA. By total chance, the owner of D-Sonic Dennis Deacon lives about 30 minutes away from me. I called him up and asked if he'd be willing to help us out. He allowed me, a total stranger to come by his home and meet him and ensure I was a legit individual. He agreed on the spot when we met to loan us an M3a-6100-7 for the meet. This is the amp that is my main system amp to this day. 1500WPC for your LCR, fed by the top of the line Pascal modules, and a custom input designed by Dennis.

These amps embody effortless sound and total control over your woofers, due to their high damping factor. Hook the same pair of speakers up to one of these vs a class AB amp, and you'll hear the immediate difference in the bass.

I have heard the best on offer from Emotiva, Outlaw, Marantz, Schiit, Dartzeel and a lot of other audiophile brands. I now have 3 D-Sonic amps in my house. That is not a coincidence - it's just that they are so damn good, and so well priced for what you get.

Dennis has become a friend since we first met, and we regularly invite one another over to listen to music and critique each others systems. I can honestly say I've never known a more honest, genuine and humble person in this industry, and he is someone I would unreservedly refer others to.

If you do want to give D-Sonic a try, I am sure you won't regret it.
Well, if Dennis wants a field comparison vs Emotiva with some very difficult speakers, and including Emotiva's flagship 2 channel amp, you know where to look. I'm certain John Dirk would like a shot at sampling as well. :P
 

John Dirk

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John,

I will add my totally unasked for opinion too. I ran across D-Sonic when HTF needed a loaner amp for our last meet in CA. By total chance, the owner of D-Sonic Dennis Deacon lives about 30 minutes away from me. I called him up and asked if he'd be willing to help us out. He allowed me, a total stranger to come by his home and meet him and ensure I was a legit individual. He agreed on the spot when we met to loan us an M3a-6100-7 for the meet. This is the amp that is my main system amp to this day. 1500WPC for your LCR, fed by the top of the line Pascal modules, and a custom input designed by Dennis.

These amps embody effortless sound and total control over your woofers, due to their high damping factor. Hook the same pair of speakers up to one of these vs a class AB amp, and you'll hear the immediate difference in the bass.

I have heard the best on offer from Emotiva, Outlaw, Marantz, Schiit, Dartzeel and a lot of other audiophile brands. I now have 3 D-Sonic amps in my house. That is not a coincidence - it's just that they are so damn good, and so well priced for what you get.

Dennis has become a friend since we first met, and we regularly invite one another over to listen to music and critique each others systems. I can honestly say I've never known a more honest, genuine and humble person in this industry, and he is someone I would unreservedly refer others to.

If you do want to give D-Sonic a try, I am sure you won't regret it.
This is great background info, Dave.

Thanks for sharing.
 

John Dirk

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Sure. I bought them in February and they were delivered in late February. I had my whole upgraded system installed by the end of March, so they’ve been in service since then. I was attracted to class D amplification because I have my equipment stack in one column of a bookcase, surrounded by books on three sides. I wanted plenty of power/headroom without the worry about baking my books. The D-Sonics actually run hotter than I expected, but nowhere close to what class A/B would be. I had Sunfire amps in the 2000’s and they ran much hotter than the D-Sonics.

The models I have are the M3a-5400-7 (1500 W for each L/R channel, 800 W for C channel and 400 W for each of 4 atmos ceiling channels) and the M3a-800s (400 W for each surround channel). I run a 5.1.4 atmos setup with these. Cost averaged out to about $600 per channel.

Thanks for the additional information. We just completed some major work on the house so my budget is pretty much non-existent for awhile at least but I will be keeping a close eye on D Sonic for future reference. If either yourself or @Dave Upton end up getting the upgrade bug please keep me in mind for possible resale of your current amps. Otherwise, I'll probably be looking at the M3a-1200-3 at some point.
 

Mike2001

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The Sunfire amps didn’t agree with the electrical in my new house (built in 1972) which I moved into in 2008. By 2010, I was working my way through a series of AVRs looking for something that worked for me (mostly upgrading due to video, not audio). The D-Sonics are my first separates in awhile and will hopefully last me a good long time (I got almost 10 years out of the Sunfire).

ps. Dave’s D-Sonic review last year was definitely a factor in my upgrade decision. Thanks Dave as I am very happy with my new amps.
 
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John Dirk

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I'm certain John Dirk would like a shot at sampling as well. :P

Absolutely. My speakers are notoriously easy to drive but I would just love to hear what 400 or even 800 watts brings out of them.
 

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