Denon 5800 upgrade or Pioneer VS49TX (1 Viewer)

[RajeeK]

Be careful...or I will wind you up

That is something I would love to see. Always nice to see Aslam pop his head in once in a while. Jeremy, I know you and Aslam certainly can get things going, inevitably I see myself getting dragged in to the dog fight's as well. It's nice to see so much love here, I just fell all warm and cozy inside.:b
Man oh man, I made the top of page 2 and 3. I ROCK.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"Man oh man, I made the top of page 2 and 3. I ROCK."
Yeah, Rajee, you do rock....
BUT NOT NEARLY AS HARD AS MY 5800!!!!! HA HA
The internet is a funny place...we are all just a buncha faceless people in the crowd! I just love the passion on HTF for components, I think it is the most incredible place to hang...because everyone speaks MY language.
We have all tried to talk and debate sound stuff with our wives/girlfriends and they aren't nearly as passionate as our friends on HTF!
I love this forum!
Jeremy

 

[Mike Peveler]

Jeremy I have gone over to the dark side, you may be the last remaining Denon Jedi. I just ordered the 49TX $2535 overnite. I hope mcacc helps out with some room problems or I will have to pull a Jay and Silent Bob on you guys "How many people wanna kick some ass"

 

[RajeeK]

I hope mcacc helps out with some room problems or I will have to pull a Jay and Silent Bob on you guys

Congrats on the new purchase. If MCACC isn't all that we have made it out to be, then just pull a Silent Bob on us and we won't have to hear Jeremy say I told ya so.

 

[Steve K.H.]

After listening to my buddy's H/K and Logic 7, I couldn't go without that feature...

Do either of these unit have this?

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

No Steve, but thanks for throwing another wrench into the thread
Harmon International is the owners of both H/K and Lexicon. Lexicon started Logic 7 and H/K implements a basic Logic 7 package on their receivers. To get the full effect of Logic 7 (no pun intended), check out the Lexicon pre/pros.
Mike,
Congrats...did you get rid of your 5800? Hope the 49 treats you well.
Jeremy

 

[Robert George]

Does the MCACC make the soundstage seem like there was no change in sound transducers which is the ultimate goal?

Not completely sure what you mean by this, but I'll take a stab at your question based on what I think you mean...

First, for reference, there are two equalization modes with MCACC in the 49TX. The first is "all channels" which eq's the entire system based on a preset response curve. The second is called "front align" which analyzes the in-room response of the left/right mains then attempts to match the center and surrounds to that. Personally, I never use the "all channels" mode as that is much too bright for my system. However, the "front align" mode is little short of a minor miracle.

Using the "front align" mode, the surround speakers seem to disappear into the room. The surround soundfield becomes completely seamless and totally enveloping. Remember, I am using surround speakers that retail for $175 and $200 each respectively with front speakers that go for $1750 a side and a cool two grand in the center. Even though the surround monitors are B&W brand, they are in no way a match for the Nautilus line. But, when used as surround speaers and using the MCACC, I cannot detect any timbral mismatch between the front and surround speakers. I tested this using THX EX test material of male and female voices circulating through all channels.

The tonal characteristics of the AT dipoles was a more difficult match for the MCACC and as such, I was not getting quite as smooth a blend between mains and surrounds, but it was very close. Also, I should mention that using four surrounds in THX Ultra 2 mode with the eq matching of the MCACC completely negates the benefits of a dipole surround speaker. Using four well-balanced monopoles is about the best surround sound I have heard.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

Obi,
Any chance you could provide your "experienced, wise" opinion on the poster's initial question?
If you had the 5800 (in lieu of the 307) initially, would you upgrade your 5800 or pick up the 49TX
Thanks for your insight....
Jeremy

 

[Mike Peveler]

Jeremy, no I haven't sold the 5800 yet, I am going to try to sell it locally however if you know anyone I will take $1800 + shipping it is mint with box manual and remote.

I will also comment in this thread my initial impressions of the 49 on thurs or fri thanks to everyone for your input.

 

[RajeeK]

Mike,
Sounds like a good price. You may want to advertise here, www.ebay.com and www.audiogon.com You should be able to get that much from one of those places.

 

[Mike Peveler]

Hey, Rajeek you may have gotten the top of both pages but I got the best post number 69

 

[PatrickM]

Obi, you answered part of the question. What I was trying to ask was the goal, as I understand it, for MCACC is to timbre match and make seamless any speaker within the setup so that even different brands of speakers across the front can sound the same when panned across.

Since you had the chance to have a variety of speakers hooked up to a MCACC calibrated system I was wondering if it actually made the system sound the same regardless of speakers used.

You answered it for the most part by your description of what happened with the AT surround speakers. Everything has its limitations but if you do buy speakers from the same family it appears the MCACC would make them even more seamless.

Patrick

 

[PaulKH]

Obi said:

I am using surround speakers that retail for $175 and $200 each respectively

I can beat that, mine are even cheaper (low end Boston Acoustics) and I'm AMAZED at how good they sound after MCACC. I realize, because they're small, that they're supported by the sub, but even still, MCACC makes them sound seamless with the rest of mish mash of speakers... it's - a miracle!

 

[RajeeK]

Hey, Rajeek you may have gotten the top of both pages but I got the best post number 69

Damn, bested once again. And I never saw it cuming....wait, no pun intended (oh did I mis-spell somthing):b
Now, if I could only delete my post 64, I would not only have the top of page 2 and 3, but also post 69. Mods, would you mind deleteing my post #64. I must prevail.

 

[Aslam Imran]

That is something I would love to see. Always nice to see Aslam pop his head in once in a while. Jeremy, I know you and Aslam certainly can get things going, inevitably I see myself getting dragged in to the dog fight's as well. It's nice to see so much love here, I just fell all warm and cozy inside.

Now there's something you wont see in this thread as I am with Jeremy on this one. We have the ability to get it going only when we are on the opposite sides of the river. This time we are on the same side. So no yelling only talking.

I have no experience with the 49tx but from what it seems like this MCCACC (or whatever the heck it is) seems like the greatest invention since the wheel. It optimizes the room acoustics so you can put the HT in any kind of room (with curved walls, glass walls, missing walls etc etc. ) and this feature will optimize the sound field. Also this feature will timbre match any kind of speakers (horns, ESLs etc.) for seamless surround sound. If it can really do the above said then it is infact the greatest invention since the wheel and if it cant do that then I am sorry to say that anything less than that can be achieved with a rat SPL and a set of timbre matched speakers and some common sense. It might be a little trouble but can be achieved nevertheless.

I have however done carefull sound comparisons between the Elite and the Denon and liked the sound of Denon better. The Elite somehow seemed lacking in the mid bass department and sounded dry compared to the full bodied warm sound of the Denons. So on a pure sound basis I would have to give the upper hand to the Denon. But that would be me. But then again the salesman might not have set up the Elite properly to take full advantage of the MCCACC..yada..yada..

My $0.02

 

[PaulKH]

The Elite somehow seemed lacking in the mid bass department and sounded dry compared to the full bodied warm sound of the Denons

What exactly does 'dry' sound like? Sounds like the same drivel wine 'experts' write.

 

[Aslam Imran]

dry=lifeless=dehydrated=thin...etc...you know what I mean.

 

[James Elvick]

dry=lifeless=dehydrated=thin...etc...you know what I mean

Hogwash! I just hooked the up my 49TX up last night and this is not how I'd say this piece sounds! If anything it is a slightly richer sound as Denon is fairly neutral and analytical. For your FYI, I've had is this exact same setup 3 Denons, including a 5800, and the Pioneer sounds awesome! Is it heads above the 5800? No. It is the equal to the 5800 easily with stereo sources and I think is better from a processing point of view for multichannel including DD/DTS.
The Denon I think has a better interface, or one that I'm more used to maybe. Know this, I loved my Denons. I think they are the quality and feature leader and until the 49TX I would not have bought a Pioneer Elite.
MCAAC is pretty amazing. Just look at the results after calibration of the EQ and it is amazing to see what your room really looks like. The adjustments go from any where from 6db to 1.5db over 9 frequencys and has really helped the midbass bloat in my center channel crossed over at 80hz. Dialogue is much better IMHO. Pans are seamless and the rear soundstage is excellent.
This is a excellent receiver/processor I think processor really describes it the best.
Related equipment:
Paradigm Studio Reference 100's v2 Rosenut Veneer, Studio Center, Studio 40's v2 Rosenut Veneer for sides and rears.
Parasound HCA2200mkII for front mains.
SVS 20-39CS+ with Samson 700/BFD Pro
Toshiba 57HX Rear Projection
Numerous sources!

 

[Robert George]

Patrick:

I don't want to give the impression that the MCACC feature will make bad speakers sound good. Nothing is going to do that. This is, after all, a system that attempts to match response curves of all channels using a digital EQ on each channel. I could still tell the timbral variation between the HTM2 compared to the HTM1. What this feature does is reduce the frequency response mismatch between channels so that even dissimilar speakers will blend better, though not perfectly. It also helps flatten out room modes so that the frequency response of the entire system is smoother and more balanced.

Jeremy:

I know your question is theoretical, but without having more experience with the Denon 5800 I simply can't offer a credible answer. Knowing how my decision process works, however, I think I would be inclined to sell the 5800 and try the 49TX rather than sink another $800 into an older receiver. Selling good equipment has become so easy with sites like Audiogon that I don't belive I could justify spending another $800 on a 5800 when I could sell it for $1700-$1800 and buy a new 49TX for $2400. But I think this would be a very tough decision. This is based on never having heard the 49TX. If I had the opportunity to audition the 49TX for any length of time (in other words, knowing what I know now), I would probably be much more inclined to sell the Denon.

 

[Aslam Imran]

Hogwash! I just hooked the up my 49TX up last night and this is not how I'd say this piece sounds! If anything it is a slightly richer sound as Denon is fairly neutral and analytical. For your FYI, I've had is this exact same setup 3 Denons, including a 5800, and the Pioneer sounds awesome! Is it heads above the 5800? No. It is the equal to the 5800 easily with stereo sources and I think is better from a processing point of view for multichannel including DD/DTS.

Pat, like I said it could just be me or that the MCCAACC wasn't setup right or was setup with the audition room doors open while I listened to it with the doors closed...yada..yada I know I can always getout of a mess by saying that it wasn't setup right, right?
Jeremy, we are outnumbered here..either listen to them and get the 49TX or take my advice and get an RSP 1066 instead and leave these Mindless Chaotic Anal Audiophile Chitter Chatters (MCAACC) lightyears behind. you already have a killer two channel amp all you would then need is a RMB1095 and you will be on your way to audio nirvana.