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Denon 5800 upgrade or Pioneer VS49TX

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mike Peveler, May 10, 2002.

  1. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    "High end multi channel room-speaker equalizers run into the thousands. Check out the TACT Audio Room Correction Systm (RCS)2.2X to get an idea of what we are talking about."

    Artie,

    I am familiar with TACT's ARCS. That is one hell of a product, and shouldn't be compared to MCACC. If I had a large theater room and the money to spend...this may be a direction I would pursue, but again...I think it is relevant to size and room dimensions.

    I think Pioneer should be applauded for implementing MCACC for room calibration. I think it is a great tool, especially for those folks that haven't heard of an SPL meter. I would think that more companies will copy Pioneer on this design down the road...aimed at the Joe 6 pack who is used to the balance knob of the old days.

    Jeremy
     
  2. RajeeK

    RajeeK Second Unit

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  3. Mike Peveler

    Mike Peveler Stunt Coordinator

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    If you guys are done beating this dead horse [​IMG] could anyone else besides Jeremy give me an opinion on my original post, without getting into a pissing contest[​IMG]
     
  4. RajeeK

    RajeeK Second Unit

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    Ok. Mike. Here ya go. The 49TX is the Best.[​IMG]
     
  5. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey, I'm sold.

    Where is the best place to buy a 49TX with a warranty?

    I am getting tired of waiting on a 950/770 combo which may or may not ever ship.
     
  6. Mike Peveler

    Mike Peveler Stunt Coordinator

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    Rajeek thank you for the totally objective response, decision made. [​IMG] Alright, here is another cry for help has anyone heard both the 49, and 5803 with the same speakers, and if so what is your opinion on sound quality not set up parameters. I am fully aware of MCACC and all of it's glory. But I am concerned with sound quality for film. What I am looking for is objectivity not I bought this one so it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    If it is importnat I have Paradigm studio 40's front, studio cc, studio adp's, studio 20's for rear, and a servo 15.
     
  7. Michael Langdon

    Michael Langdon Stunt Coordinator

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    Mike,

    I just recently sold my 5800 in the Hardware For Sale/Trade forum for $1700. I personally feel that the $800 upgrade to the 5800 is not worth it. I have not decided what I want at this point. I have owned Yamaha DSPA1, Denon 5700, 4800 and the 5800. In my opinion, and I have considered it, I would purchase the Pioneer Elite 49TX over the Denon 5803. I feel that the only thing the 5803 has over the 49TX is amplifiers. I have used external amplification on all my receivers. I feel that the 49TX would be the better processor. I hesitate to give my opinion here because of the frequent pissing contests that result.
     
  8. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    "I hesitate to give my opinion here because of the frequent pissing contests that result."
    Michael, Opinions don't start pissing contests...less than factual responses do.
    Mike,
    Please search for Elbert's comparison. He has experience with all three receivers. There are others on the board as well. Also, someone has been comparing the 5800 and Outlaw on another thread. Seems the Outlaw is "hands down" the better of the two in that one[​IMG] There are many, many opinions and subjective results to be found. There is another gentleman, Trevor Schell...he has Paradigm Studio speakers with his 5800, and I believe he is pursuing the upgrade route. You may want to drop him a line once his upgrade has been completed. His system seems close to yours.
    There is yet another fella that did a comparison between the 5803 and the 49TX at HTspot. His name is HifiGramps. Check it out.
    Peace,
    Jeremy
     
  9. Danny Bonnell

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    Aslam said it best in the first reply- If I were going to spend 2 or 3 grand on equipment, I would most definitely be looking at the separates route.
    The 5800 and 49TX are fine machines, but the Outlaw with a standalone amp is probably a better bet.
    If you are willing to spend a little more, you might even want to look for a steal on a non-traded in MC-1, get some nice amps, and sit tight until Lexicons baby MC-12 comes out towards the end of the year- trade in the MC-1, and move into a loaded Lexicon processor.
    I will also second (and third and fourth) the Pioneers MCACC...that is an incredible feature on a low priced receiver. Parasound has something like it on their pre-pros, and it makes setup a BREEZE. Room response and speaker response is critical to the setup- no way can you be as precise with a RAT Shack meter. Heck, its off in the lower frequencies anyways.
    Its nice that Denon FINALLY came thru with their upgrade program, but by the time they fill all the orders, chances are their new feature set will start to be old news.
    The 5800 has a great feature set..but ya know, I have a MC-12..it basically does everything but tell me the weather..and I use Logic 7 for almost everything. I don't use it as a video switcher, and don't use 75% of the gadgetry on it. Its nice for bragging rights, but in my real world, I hardly use the "added" feature sets like Pro Logic II and the like.
    I am also not a fan of "all in one box" performance. I like standalone amps. And really, why buy a 3,000.00 reciever with inboard amps, then buy another 1500.00 of quality outboard amps to drive your reciever with inboard amps? [​IMG] Just doesn't make alot of sense to me.
    In the end..buy what makes you happy. That's what this is all about.
     
  10. James Elvick

    James Elvick Supporting Actor

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    I'm Back[​IMG]
    Jeremy,
     
  11. RajeeK

    RajeeK Second Unit

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    I'm back too.[​IMG] Not much to say, but just wanted to let ya know.[​IMG]
    Oh, and would ya look at that I'm at the top of page 2. Yahoo.
     
  12. WilliamL

    WilliamL Auditioning

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    Here's the thing that Jeremy doesn't seem willing to admit, that being that all speakers and rooms are a compromise - no speaker reproduces all frequencies at equal levels, no room is perfect acoustically. Even small rooms react with sound. When he says that anyone who puts their home theater together properly doesn't need to EQ their system, that's either the arrogance of someone who can afford the absolute best, or someone who hasn't (or just doesn't care to) heard the difference. Even great speakers have slight bumps in their frequency curves - and less than great speakers have even larger bumps. MCACC helps by trying to equal out those bumps. And guess what, as far as getting what the artist intended - you can't do that if your speakers aren't producing the sound the artist intended. Speakers with less than flat EQ curves aren't producing what the artist put on the source.
    I've heard the difference between a system just tweaked with an SPL meter and test tones, and a system tweaked with a 9 band 7 channel EQ - if you haven't, then don't knock it. Simply hiding your head in the sand and declaring that something is less than useful doesn't make it so, especially when you don't have any experience with it. For anyone who wants to see what others have experienced with this supposedly useless feature, check out www.docdvd.com and Sound & Vision's 49TX review. Both compared the settings of MCACC with expensive acoustic meters, and both found that MCACC gave almost identical results.
    If this reads like a rant, it is because I read Jeremy's responses dismissing this feature out of hand as something that only idiots (read Joe 6 pack) would need or use, while pointing out Denon link (one manufacturer with one DVD player that supports it) or having 16 DACs as important. Since it is in fact the sound coming from the speakers that maters, the system that is more capable of reproducing what is on the source through those speakers will have the better sound. On hand you have the AVR-5800 with the good old channel levels and delays and bass and treble controls, on the other you have the VSX-49TX with all those as well as a 9 band 7 channel EQ, seriously which one will get closer?
    I'm sure that Denon and others will start including similar features because those of us who have used this feature (and I haven't drunk a 6 pack in weeks) have found it incredibly useful, practical, and powerful. There have been more than a couple people who have switched from the AVR-5800 to the VSX-49TX, and while the Denon is a good receiver with plenty of features and power, I haven't seen any post from one of those who bought the 49TX say that they'd go back or go over to the AVR-5803 (and obviously these are people who could afford whichever of those they wanted). Almost to a one they have mentioned the 49TX as being an improvement in sound quality, and MCACC is sited as the single biggest reason. You can find these posts on http://pub106.ezboard.com/faussiedvdandhtforumfrm24 BTW, I haven't seen any posts on the Denon forum at that same site of people going from the VSX-49TX to the AVR-5803.
     
  13. RajeeK

    RajeeK Second Unit

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  14. BobRoulier

    BobRoulier Second Unit

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    Its funny,
    every so often you get "one" person who is just too stuborn to admit that a product is what its cracked up to be, maybe to justify their mindset or purchace or just being a pain in the ass[​IMG] regardless of that its usually seems to be someone that hasnt even demoed the product how ironic is that[​IMG]
    I dont know about you guys but im feeling blue in the face[​IMG]
    See ya Bob
     
  15. PaulKH

    PaulKH Second Unit

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    I have a 49TX. I was thinking I'd need to upgrade my speakers when I got it, but MCACC makes them sound SO MUCH BETTER I no longer feel the need to upgrade any time soon.
    Many new 49TX owners who try MCACC say it sounds 'too bright' but I believe what's happening is they're just not used to it, because they're hearing a more accurate representation than they ever have before, as 'dead spots' in their speakers have been evened out.
    Initially I wasn't sure if MCACC sounded 'right' but I've now concluded after a lot of back and forth tests that it consistently makes EVERYTHING sound better. CDs, DVD-video and DVD-audio, even cable TV, etc.
    It's an AWESOME feature and sorry Jeremy, there's NO FREAKIN' WAY you can even get close with your Rat Shack meter and Avia or VE or the Psychic Hotline. [​IMG]
     
  16. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    Alright fellas, you're right, the 49TX is the REAL DEAL[​IMG]
    How could I be so ignorant. I don't think I have ever said anything negative about the Pioneer. If challenging you gents' knowledge of speaker/room and component calibration makes you so emotional...I'll back out.
    (sarcasm begins)...I know that those Sound and Vision Reviews know what they're talking about. DocDVD is another invaluable source. Guys, if the 49TX makes you happy, cool. The 5800 make me happy...and I think that is cool. I also do not think equalization is cool in this age of digital media. If you can't respect that...fine, I can not respect you as someone that knows how to set up and calibrate a home theater system. You may as well pick yourself up a 4:3 TV and wait until all of the Pan and Scan titles release so you don't have to deal with the black bars. While you're at it, if your speakers don't sound correct...turn up the treble, crank the bass to 10!(sarcasm over).
    I wonder why any of you Pioneer lovers haven't felt the need to help the poster with his initial comments? Why must you tout your MCACC bullshit in a thread highjack? How about a seperate thread about "THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE TO DATE: MCACC?"
    Good God! Remind me never to jump into the Pioneer Pen again[​IMG]
    Jeremy
     
  17. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    "It's an AWESOME feature and sorry Jeremy, there's NO FREAKIN' WAY you can even get close with your Rat Shack meter and Avia or VE or the Psychic Hotline."

    Bet me Paul??? PLEASE, BET ME!!!

    Not only can I get close, I can best your equalized system any day of the week, I guarantee IT!!!

    Jeremy
     
  18. J.C. Hall

    J.C. Hall Extra

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    A little full of our selves aren't we. I love these "Mine is better than yours" threads. I'll tell you this, I've had all of the flagship receivers from Onkyo, Denon, and Pioneer in the past year and they are all good. They may all have slightly different sound but none sound bad. So, back to the posters original intent of the thread. Mike, since I know you personally and not one of these others posters do, I think you should do what you feel is the best move for you. Not what the members of the Denon is better because I own it or the Pioneer is better because I own it crowd says. I told Mike before he started this thread that it would turn into a pissing contest and guess what, it did! One more thing. Jeremy, I'll take your bet because I have had a 5800 and a 49tx and without a perfect room I'll tell you that the MCACC does make a difference over just plain old channel levels which is all your doing. Not trashing you Jeremy, but I'll bet you haven't even heard them in the same room on the same speakers. Good luck Mike. Me and you will figure it out!!!!!!!!!!

    J.C.
     
  19. J.C. Hall

    J.C. Hall Extra

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    By the way, I do know how to set up a home theater system. You can ask the original poster about that if you'd like Jeremy [​IMG]
    J.C.
     
  20. PaulKH

    PaulKH Second Unit

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    Jeremy said:

     

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