Denon 4802 versus Pioneer 45Tx or 47Tx or Outlaw 770/950

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Myron, Nov 11, 2002.

  1. Myron

    Myron Agent

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    All three of these are about the same general price: Denon 4802 for about $2400, The Pioneer Elite 47TX can be had for about $1900 and the Outlaw 770/950 can be had for about $2500.

    Given the same general price arena for these units, do people have any firm preferences for one over the other? Obviously the Outlaw system is actually a pre/amp separates system whereas the others are fully integrated.

    I want a system (mid-priced) that will handle classical music as well as HT. All three seem pretty good units. I have some concerns about Denon support as I've read a number of threads expressing some concerns here.

    But otherwise is there one of these that really stands out. Or is more of a case of the proverbial Ford versus Chevy arguments.

    Second totally side question. Is the Pioneer 47Tx really worth the over $1000 premium in price over the 45TX? Is it noticeably that much better. Certainly the specs are better, but over double the price?
     
  2. Chris Carswell

    Chris Carswell Supporting Actor

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    I would go with the 45tx + a good 2 or 3 ch amp. Parasound, Acurus, or Adcom power can be found cheap.
     
  3. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    I compared the Pioneer 47TX to the Denon 4802 and ended up with the Pioneer (there was no 45TX model available when I made this purchase). I liked the Pioneer sound, and it beat the Denon easily in features that mattered to me -- front panel a/v inputs, MCACC auto calibration, etc. While I thought the MCACC feature would be a nice novelty to play with when I was comparing the products, it has become a more important feature after having the receiver in my home. It has helped smooth out some room frequency response issues I was experiencing.
     
  4. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    IMHO, I second Chris's recommendation. If you have less than 6 ohm speakers, the Pioneer's are really not designed for that condition. I beleive they give good clean sound though and would not hestitate to recommend them for 8 ohm systems.

    The 45 TX has great features and if you pick up a good 2 or three channel amp the 45 TX will handle the rest fine. But, the 47 is great.

    Most people here will recommend seperates but the 45 is a good first step to get into seperates. Great processing power.

    Good Luck!

    Mike
     
  5. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    I would go with the Outlaw combo if features are not so high on your list. Purely on sound and long term felexibility the Outlaw combo is the wisest choice, IMHO.
     
  6. Myron

    Myron Agent

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    What features other than things like the surround sound settings or MCACC would I be giving up with the Outlaws?

    All the speakers I'm considering are 4-8 ohms nominal.
     
  7. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

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    I second Yogi's recomendation on the Outlaw combo.[​IMG]
     
  8. Chris Carswell

    Chris Carswell Supporting Actor

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    I think you also have to consider the speakers you are using. I had an older pair of Kappa 6.1 (8" driver) & Kappa 8.1 (12" driver). My 35tx would power them but when I really cranked them it will go into overload (so would my vsx-810s). These things would suck power so I got some Adcoms & that solved that problem. Now I sold the Adcoms & built my own MTM speakers & wired the 2, 7" drivers in parallel yielding a 4 ohm load. I can power them all day at crazy SPL & it won't shut down my Elite. In my case it did depend on the speakers.
     
  9. Harlan

    Harlan Agent

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    I have to agree with Scott. I have a Denon AVR 5700 and I was lucky enough to beable to put together a second Theater. It was a toss up between the 4802 and the 47TX. I felt they were a push. Since I already had the 5700 I decided to try something new. It wasn't because I didn't like the Denon, it was for the experience. Well now that I have the 47TX, I can say they are still comparable from a sound perspective but the MCACC is a definite winner! Although the 47's is a little more sophisticated than the 45's, you won't go wrong with a 45 and a separate amp. In fact I'm in the market for a separate amp for my 47.

    Hope that helps.

    Bomber
     
  10. Rick Fitz

    Rick Fitz Agent

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    I went with the 45tx for about $980.00 and added 3 marantz ma500 monoblocks @125w per. Monoblocks cost me about $400.00 used. So I ended up about $500.00 bucks less then the 47 with I believe a better setup.
     
  11. Myron

    Myron Agent

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    Assuming I went with the 45Tx and separate amps, how would I hook something likethis up. I have no clue here. Where do the separate amps go on the 45Tx?
     
  12. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

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    My choice would be the 45TX and two Parasound HCA-855a's(under $1000 both shipped! on ebay). That would be 85Wx10. You could bi-amp(if speakers allow) your front's and center, in addition to powering the remaining 4 surround channels.
     
  13. Myron

    Myron Agent

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    If I understand correctly, the setup with the 45Tx and amps would be the DVD to the 45Tx and then the speaker output would go to an amp and from the amp to the speakers.

    Something like the fronts to one amp, center to another, and l/r surrounds to a third? And the sub off a separate channel. Rear surround if there would go into one of the amps or different one.

    Is this a correct understanding? And what does this buy me over something like the outlaw system?
     
  14. Brae

    Brae Supporting Actor

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    45TX and either a 1622 or 1644 PLX amp and be very happy.
     
  15. Josh_Z

    Josh_Z Agent

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    You are mostly correct on the wiring. The DVD will feed the VSX-45 through a digital input. Then the VSX-45 preamp outputs will run into the seperate amp. These will be line level RCA cables that run from the receiver into the amp.

    When you enter the world of seperate amps the improvements, in general, that you'll notice are more refined bass, usually more open highs, and of course better imaging. If you have the budget, the VSX-45 and additional amps will give you the best bang for the buck in my opinion.
     
  16. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Myron:

    Its not hard to hookup - rather its pretty easy and intuitive. And with the 45 + amp combo you will be able to bi-amp - use the 45's amps and your new amp at the same time - if your speakers are of that type.

    It'll be fun hooking it up.

    Mike
     
  17. Garth

    Garth Auditioning

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    Rick,
    How are the Marantz mono blocks compared to the Pioneer at lower volumes? What type of speakers do you have, have you tried bi-amping using the Pioneer for the highs?
     
  18. Rick Fitz

    Rick Fitz Agent

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    Garth

    I'm no expert but I would describe the sound as smoother. I'm using swan diva's 4.1 w/ a diva c3 center all of which are 6 ohm. It just seemed that everything needed less effort to sound better. I would say moderate vol. for me is about about -25db on my 45 and had it to 0db with lotr with no problem.

    Haven't tried bi-amping yet as I still don't have my whole system together. Should get my sub this weekend and then I will use the mcacc and see where I stand.
     

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