Denon 3803 or Pioneer vsx-45tx ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mario D, Dec 1, 2002.

  1. Mario D

    Mario D Extra

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    I'm looking onto buying one of these two and wanted to know if anyone has compared the two and if so what was the outcome.Witch of the two is better.
     
  2. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Mario:

    Both are very good. I don't recommend the 45 TX to someone who has less than 6 ohm speakers. The amp section is rated for 6 ohm and above.

    Thee 45 has the MCACC (auto cal) which is a very nice feature. If your doing heavy video switching the Denon has 100 Mhz bandwidth versus 40 MHz for the 45.

    I don't do it so it makes no difference. The 45 is THX Select certified and the Denon is not. However, most here will argue that its a moot point. I, however, like it.

    Bottom line is they are both very nice machines and the feature difference are enough that you should seriously study them before making a purchase.

    You should also look at the HK 525 and the Onkyo 900.

    I have the 45 TX and am very satisfied.

    Good Luck!

    Mike
     
  3. Mario D

    Mario D Extra

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    Thanks for your reply Mike...

    I've read the manual on the 45 tx The mccac and expert section,as the manual calls it seems to be wonderful.Did you benefit from it? THX certification and front audio video hook up are other strong points to this receiver that Denon doesn`t offer on the 3803. But the bottom line is the sound and i cant wait to hear it.If i like the sound as much as the features i'll own a 45 tx by the week-end.Do you know anything about the heart of this Baby..exam; what kind of dac's? ect.... I know about the mosfet amp section. On this site they say it give 90 watts not 100 .do you have enough power?
     
  4. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    The Pioneer uses AKM DACs & ADCs and two Motorola Symphony processors.

    They are both good receivers in the $1000 price range with slightly different sonic signatures(the Pioneer is a little more open sounding, IMO). The MCACC is what pushed me over the edge to get the 45, but I don't think you could go wrong with either one.

    DJ
     
  5. Juan_R

    Juan_R Supporting Actor

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    This is a very tuff choice, at least for me it is. I am torn between these two receivers. I like the Denon for its number of digital inputs but I like the 45TX for its MCACC. Well I still have two weeks to decide.
     
  6. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    Howcome no one is talking about comparing the sound of these two. How do the two compare based purely on sound? I dont know as I haven't listened to either of them. Based on my previous experience with the sound of Denon and Elite I like the Denon sound better. Warmer and more laidback. The Elite might have a slightly better low end punch and definition. Also depends largly on what speaker you hook them to.
     
  7. stosh

    stosh Auditioning

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    I would listen to both, but I would also check out the remote for both since the Denon has features accessable only from the remote. For a non-techie like me, I found the Pioneer to be more user friendly and easier to operate.

    For a big ticket item such as this, I would recommend spending a little more money and buying it from a local authorized dealer, not only for the purposes of the warranty, but for ease of return in case you don't like it. I had originally purchased the Denon 3803 and returned it the next day and with no hassles and got something else. I also could have gotten a refund. I didn't have to hassly with an RMA and paying postage, etc, etc.

    In light of that, they are both great sounding, full featured receivers. Oh, the Denon also has video "up" conversion and the Pioneer does not.

    Good luck!
     
  8. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Mario:
    I just spent 10 minutes typing you a a response and this frigging forum puked me. It like it loses its login. Then I can't go back and get it. Frick.
    I'll try a short version.
    These receivers as I said before are very good. I'm going to say something controversial here. I wouldn't put too much stock in trying to listen to the sound of these three machines in a store. I think you'd need to get a very good test environment to see what the differences are.
    Now, that's not to say that the observations of these guys are wrong. I've listened to the Denon 3802 and the HK 520 and the Pioneer extensively. Right out of the box they may be right and I might even have some of the same observations.
    The difference is - can one tweak the machines to make them sound alike? I believe so. The Pioneer has the Equilizer and the MCACC. Now, I'm a semi-professional trumpet player and I have a pretty good ear. I can't manually make the Pioneer sound as good as the MCACC can. You should see some of the differences the MCACC comes up with that there's no way one could duplicate without extensive test equipment. It really compensates for the room environment. It runs the EQ on all channels and also has 2 different setting per channel. Front Align and All channels adjust, and also you can copy these settings and have 2 customizable settings of your own for each speaker. The front align and the all channels adjust have very different readings. Brae and I have tried to figure it out but its better than us. Hell Pioneer support doesn't know as much about this thing as we do.
    But, bottom line is these machines are so customizable - I think one can make a receiver sound how one likes.
    So my point is: Look at the features you need. Check out the remote - if you use it - you'll need to luv it. I like the 45's better than the HK. I haven't seen the 3803's yet.
    I think you get a good machine with either. BTW: where did you hear the 45 is 90 WPC? I haven't seen any test results with all channle driven and beleive me I've been looking.
    I have a pardigm reference/Bose setup and it comfortably drives my system to over 105 db at the listening position - which BTW is way too loud. I listen to LOTR at 87 db average with peaks around 94 db at the listening postion. It seems to have plent of power. But, it will NOT drive 4 ohm speakers period.
    Anyway that wasn't so short was it?[​IMG]
    You won't go wrong with either!
    Well I'm waiting to be castrated.............
    Mike
     
  9. Mario D

    Mario D Extra

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    Thanks for your reply Guys!!!!!!!!!!

    I'LL have the salesman in my house on the weekend with both units.Well set things up one at a time, hook them up to my 5 B&W 600 series speakers and listen. I've heard Denon in movies at friends and they sounded pretty good (3300 & 3802 but want to be certain of my choice. I find the Pioneer to have a nicer look and great features. But I dont know about the sound just yet. I just sold my Nakamichi av10.(no upgradability and no possible dvd audio.) but the sound was true.I also looked at the 4802 and the 47 tx, but 3600 and 3000 canadian dollars before taxes, im just not sure! Oh Mike if you look at the beginning of this section RECEIVERS/SEPERATES/AMPS/ look at the thread receiver chart its there and it saiy 7x90 dont know if its tested or not.
     
  10. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Mario:

    Good Luck on the test this weekend. I think it still will be tough for you to get a good one but its probably the best you can do.

    I'd like to hear your comments after the testing.

    Mike
     
  11. Brae

    Brae Supporting Actor

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    Two receivers enter, one elite leaves!

    I'll shutup now.
     
  12. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

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    What is the retail price on the Pioneer? The MCACC and customizable digital EQ sounds interesting.
    Does the Pioneer have bass management for the Analog stereo inputs? If so is it done with analog filters, digital filters, or a combination? How many digital inputs?
    Lack of 4 ohm speaker drive (and cautions with 6 ohms) is a bummer since all of my speakers are 4 or 6 ohms [​IMG]
     
  13. Brae

    Brae Supporting Actor

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    The Pioneer suggested list price is $1,400, but a lt os retailers openly advertise it for about $1,200. If you are open to buying mail-order/Internet, you could get it a for $800-850, or thereabouts.

    Gil, I hear you when it comes to handling speaker loads at or below 6-ohms. My 8-ohm rated Paradigm Studio 100's have an Impedance curve that show the impedance dip start at around 800 Hz and below 100 Hz drops to about 3-3.5 ohms.

    Under a heavy environmental constuct, these beasties will easily beat the crap out of any Elite receiver. I've also sent some non-Pioneers AVR's into the unknown (overload, shutdown, etc.). Some speakers are just better towards either high-current AVR's or appropriate external amplification.

    In the end, I will be powering my beasties with >200WPC in a bi-amped configuration. I may end up treating the bulk of my 45TX as an inexpensive pre-pro. But, I still really, really, really like my 45TX.
     
  14. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

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  15. Brae

    Brae Supporting Actor

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    Gil, you are correct. The twin 8" bass drivers being what they are require a lot of electrical current to reproduce a lot of acoustical energy. I've experimented with elevating the crossover setting on the 45TX and managed to push the outside of the envelope (Master Volume).
    Similarly, if I go into the 5-band EQ for the main loudspeakers and lower the dB values on the 63 and or 63/125 Hz band(s), I can still further push the overall level of the Master Volume.
    This weekend I will remove the binding-post straps, thus separating the top-pair of binding posts from the bottom-pair of binding posts. I will then use just the top-pair of binding posts and power only the 1" tweeter driver and the 6.5" mid-range driver.
    According to Paradigm's Tech Support (which is day/night compared to Pioneer's), this will convert the 100's into 20's, which is the smallest version of the Studio Reference loudspeakers. I will then rest the 45TX and re-run the MCACC and see what happens.
    This is all for my geek-interest and I am not trying to prove anything--other than I'm a geek. [​IMG]
     

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