Denon 3802 vs separates. (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Brink]

I don't know how much more of this I can take! Just when I think I am ready to move on a purchase, this forum makes me doubt myself! Somehow I get the feeling that it will always be that way - great! Anyway, all this talk about the Outlaw 950 and separates and "stuff" has me wondering. I was ready to jump on the Denon 3802 at $830 (brand new w/warranty) when I read all this about the Outlaw. Can someone please tell me if there is a better NEW "separates" value available than this deal I was leaning towards. My definition of value is a package containing equivalent or better sound, equivalent or better features, equivalent or better expandability (adaptability) - all at equivalent, or close to, price. Thanks for the input.

 

[Mark Austin]

Is there a better deal on a pre/pro with the features the 950 has? Not to my knowledge. One could argue that a 3802 would provide for a fine pre/pro, and they would be correct. Does a similarly priced receiver match up to the performance of a separate pre/pro? In some instances possibly, but not often. At the same time, a nice, neat $830 receiver packs a lot of performance, and features that separates can't match for that price, unless you go used. For a separates Outlaw package with pre/pro and amp is going to be around $2000. Will you have better sound with the Outlaw? You bet. It's your dollars.

 

[Marvin]

The minimum you should be looking at is $2000 if you want to get in to separates (Outlaw combo).

In addition to the cost of the pre/pro and the amp, wouldn't you also need to factor in the cost of a tuner, and, optionally, phono preamp to get a valid price comparison of separates vs. receiver?

 

[Todd Hochard]

Looking over some of the reviews, it looks like the 3802 may actually be more versatile in terms of setup (speaker distances, sub levels for various modes) than the 950.

And if the load of the amps is taken off the 3802 (by using it as a pre/pro), I'd bet the actual (already low) noise floor would drop a bit more.

I was ready to jump on the Outlaw, but now not so sure.

Todd

 

[Michael D. Bunting]

I had been toying with the idea of purchasing the new Outlaw 950 - I even put my name on the waiting list just in case.

I currently have a Denon AVR-3300 - though I am happy with it - I just wanted something "newer" w/ DTS-ES and DPL II capability.

I just put a deposit down on a Denon 3802 - it is going to cost me $899.96 when it arrives Tuesday. No Sales tax and it's from a local dealer - so I think I did okay. Sure, I could have probably gotten it ~$100 cheaper off the Internet, but I didn't want to have warranty issues (should I get a lemon).

Like I said, I thought about going seperates - but I don't think I'm ready to drop that much money into my modest Home Theater setup just yet, even though I'm convinced I would hear the difference.

 

[EricHaas]

Mark D is correct. Since you want new rather than used components, you cannot go into separates for anywhere near the money you would spend on the 3802. You'd be spending at least $800 more, probably $1200. If you are thinking about ramping up what you spend on your electronics by that much, first consider the quality of your loudspeakers. $1200 can buy a lot of sonic improvement in loudspeakers. I am not saying that separates isn't a good upgrade, just that you should always consider your louspeakers in conjunction with your electronics. I would not spend 10x on my loudspeakers what I spent on my electronics, nor would I spend 2x on my electronics what I spent on my loudspeakers.

 

[Jeff Brink]

Thanks for all the input you guys! I feel much better about my decision to buy the 3802. I think I need to walk before I can run. If I'm understanding correctly, I believe the 3802 will give me a solid start on my home theater. I realized that I would be looking at higher dollars to go separates. Sometimes, though, it is difficult not to get wrapped up in the excitement generated by some of these conversations and begin wondering if you are doing the right thing - if you know what I mean! Anyway, I'm going to get the 3802 along with PSB Image 4T's, 10S's, 1B's and the 8C - $2500 tax included - local dealer. Oh yeah, lets not forget the SVS sub! Probably getting the 20-39, not sure about powering it. May use current old Sony receiver or may purchase powered sub. Got to figure that one out yet - wanted to stay under 3K on the whole deal - should be close. Can't wait to get it all together!

 

[Gil D]

Jeff,

I don't think you can go wrong with the 3802. I have used Denon 3200, 3801, and now 3802. All great receiver's at their pricepoint over the years. The pre/pro section of the 3802 is not bad at all and you can always add a power amp later on to start making the move over to separates.

 

[Brian O]

Actually, you could get the Outlaw 950 and a HK PA5800 5 channel Amp for around $1200.

Currently, I have a Denon 3300 as a Pre/Pro hooked to two HK Amps. I am looking forward to the Outlaw 950.

 

[Kevin. W]

There would be no separates in the range of $1000

It all depends on how hard you look and what your looking for in a setup. Currently my basement is not setup for more than 5.1 and I guess until I actually demo a 6.1 setup I can't see the added benefit/expense of an extra rear channel. In my search for a 5.1 seperate setup I searched the online forums as well as ebay. For $935US I was able to pickup a Marantz AV560U(DD/DTS 5.1 New in Box) pre/pro($400US) from Ebay. It came with a RC2000MkII remote($189US by itself). From a local dealer I got a Rotel RMB-1066 Six Channel AMP($535US). Though not a match for those upper end units, its an awesome little setup. ANd after selling my Denon 1801 and a little work on the side the setup cost me noting out of pocket.
Rotel RMB1066
http://www.rotel.com/products/rmb1066.htm
Marantz AV560U
http://www.audioreview.com/A-V,Pream...3_2719crx.aspx
Remote:
http://www.audiosound.com/marrc2000mki.html
Jeff,
I would suggest that you go the seperate route if money permitting. Brians suggestion is very appealing and would be well worth it in the end. This is a a very addictive hobby. Just when you think you have the perfect setup something else comes along and catches your eye. At some point and it will happen you will start to wonder what more power will do for your setup. Maybe a new amp will make it into the picture, maybe not. But once that amp is there, the thoughts turn to Pre/pro's. Its a vicious cycle. If you start of with Outlaw/Parasound combo atleast down the road you may only have to add a new amp for even more power.
Kevin
Kevin

 

[Jeff Brink]

Kevin,
Not that this would prevent me from making the separates purchase, but I'm wondering how much more difficult the learning process is for a novice when going directly to that type of setup. Should this be considered? Don't get me wrong, I'm committed to learning this stuff one way or another - I just don't know if I'm ready to go straight for my Master's Degree - if that makes sense. From the sounds of some of these threads, I may have my hands full with the 3802! Thanks for the input.

 

[Frank_S]

Jeff, since you say you are new to the world of separates and realize there is a lot to consider relating to the subject, I would suggest going with the Denon 3802.
You can always use it as a pre/pro and add external amps along the way. You may decide that music is a priority along the way and purchase a pre/pro with good Analog bypass, maybe even listen to vinyl and purchase a nice phono stage(preamp).
Getting involved with separates can be costly if you purchase all new components and each component requires much thought, the 1 box approach can keep cost down and minimize research thereby making it easier to make the purchase. I'm not saying separates are the holy grail either, it really depends on your expectations. I'm a separates person but it's taken me years to get there and I'm still adding components to my system, just bought another preamp(tube)to enhance my vinyl experience. Sorry for rambling but it sounds like you have a good idea what you are ready for at the moment, go for it and enjoy, that's what it's all about anyway!

 

[itai]

jeff
if you say you dont know if you need it or not, that means you dont need it!
why consider something that you dont know at all?
dont feel you are missing something.
personally, i have heard a demo of separates in the store, and was amazed at the improvment over reciever alone.
i was also amazed at the price tag!
even if i had the money i wouldnt jump on the fancy wagon before i spent some time in the entry level.
mind you, i have long forgoten that demo, since i'm immensly enjoying my doesnt-need-help-thank-you-very-much-killer-reciever(!...) 3802.