Denon 3802 vs 4802

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by bryan_chow, Nov 28, 2001.

  1. bryan_chow

    bryan_chow Agent

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    What are the features of the 4802 that the 3802 lacks, other than THX Ultra certification and 15WPC?

    Is it worth twice the money?

    (Actually I just checked mysimon.com and it's MORE than twice as expensive.)

    Thanks,

    Bryan
     
  2. Arthur Legardo

    Arthur Legardo Second Unit

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    Don't forget the fancy Aktis remote, THX post processing on a DTS signal, the new 96/24 DTS spec, extra optical inputs and beefier power supply.
    It was too rich for my blood so I "settled" for a 3802. [​IMG]
     
  3. orestes

    orestes Second Unit

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    Not to mention that it has 3 sets of component video inputs. I own the avr-3300, and I am thinking about buying the 4802 because of the extra set of component video input (the 3300 only has two). Also as someone already mentioned, it has 5 audio optical toslink inputs (my 3300 only has 3), and a few more coaxial audio inputs, which are as good as the optical in my modest opinion.

    I hope this help.

    Sincerely,

    orestes.
     
  4. Jay_E

    Jay_E Stunt Coordinator

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    Component video switching is much better with the 4802. It is 50Mhz bandwidth vs. 27Mhz for the 3802. The 4802 also has 3 component inputs vs. 2 for the 3802.

    Jay
     
  5. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

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    Seems like alot of dough for 15watts, component video switching, and more digital inputs. Oh and of course you are paying Lucas for the THX stamp. 3802 with a separate amp is a better option IMO since you can keep the amp when you upgrade your processing and feature set in the future. You can get external switchers for the digital and video if you need them.
     
  6. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer
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    Doesn't the 4802 also offer more flexible bass management than the 3802? I am also considering these two model receivers for my next upgrade, and am leaning towards the 4802 for this feature, along with the extra digital inputs. The higher cost, though, would push out the upgrade until well after the holidays, though.
     
  7. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

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    Agree completely with Mark above. At least i cannot justify the price difference in terms of features between the 3802 and 4802. I would rather get the 3802 with anexternal amp and that would be a better setup than the 4802.
     
  8. OliverG

    OliverG Extra

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    Mark and Nick,
    The 3802 with a 5 channel amp and ICBM won't beat the 4802 "hands down" on any material. To make that claim is just silly. Do you own this setup? Do you own the 4802? If so, in what ways does the 3802 setup win hands down?
    Correct me if I read your post wrong. You suggest people get the following:
    Denon 3802 - ~$750 online +shipping
    Outlaw 750 - $1099 +shipping
    Outlaw ICBM - $250 + shipping
    this is, conservatively, $2200 with shipping ($100 shipping)
    You would then need to buy an additonal two channel amp to do any 6.1 or 7.1 format. Or use what you admit to being inferior 3802 amps for the additonal channels.
    This is significantly more expensive than the 4802 which sells for ~$1800 online.
    So what you get with your setup is a far cry from "saving some dough". You get an inferior preamp stage, fewer video, audio, and digital inputs. fewer outputs , no High-Def switching. only 5 channels of high quality amplification, worse stereo sound, worse SN ratio. And to boot you spend more money.
    To truly approach the the functionality of the 4802 you would need another separate 2 channel amp, an HD video switcher, about $100 in extra cables and probably a new rack for all the extra stuff you have to buy.
    Definitely not a solution if you are trying to save money.
    -oliver
    3rAd|k83r
     
  9. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

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    Oliver, I was refering to the amp section of the 4802 vs. an external amp. I think an external amp wold sound more cleaner but that's just my opinion. As far the other things go, maybe you are right.
     
  10. Geo

    Geo Stunt Coordinator

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    I've used my 4802 both ways, with external amps (2 bridged Citation 7.1 amps, 400w/ch) and with the 4802 internal amps. I "can not" say the external amps blew away the 4802 internal amps. My speakers are fairly tough to dive (Genesis) and 4 ohm rated. The 4802 internal amps are doing a fantastic job of driving these speakers to very high and more than satisfing listening levels, with music and movies, and staying surprisingly cool to the touch at the same time. Amazing.... makes me wonder if I really need external amps (don't tell my wife I said that), of course I do..... but it's nice to know the 4802 amps are of such high quality.

    If you want to beat the 4802, not "blow" it away, you either have to pick up a 5800 and do without the updated features of the 4802 or wait for the 5800's replacement............ IMHO, of course

    geo
     
  11. OliverG

    OliverG Extra

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    Mark
    Thanks for the clarification. So you think the "fine details and musicality that the better pre-amp in the 5800 might have brought out [is] irrelavant".
    I will now retract everything I said and agree with you. For everyone who is looking for really loud noise from their system, devoid of musicality and details I think your suggestions will work well. Something akin to window rattling bass from your car stereo.
    To conclude that the 5800 sounded weak seems a bit strange to me considering it is rated at 170W on all channels. Maybe you hooked something up wrong (I would double check). Assuming that the Outlaw 750 (which everyone says is a great amp) and the Denon 5800 both have really good (ie linear, low noise, etc) amp stages, how do you explain the "better" dynamics of the Outlaw. It certainly can't be due to the poorer line-level dynamic range output from the 3801 preamp. You seem to be implying that the Outlaw can magically produce better sound from an inferior source.
    Also, re-read the subject line of the thread, it's about whether or not to spend the extra money to get the Denon 4802 instead of the Denon 3802. First you advise : don't get the 4802, get something that is even MORE expensive. I then pointed out that your suggestion makes zero sense in terms of money. You got bent out of shape and countered that you have an "all tube system" for music (except for SACD and DVD-A). Is this part of your "save some dough" approach to HT? Not really a model of frugality.
    A final thought. Maybe turning up your receiver to the point where your are taxing the amp's 150W+ per channel isn't the best way to evaluate performance. It also makes you not be able to hear so good.
    -Oliver
    too late you've been . .
    3rAd|k83D
     
  12. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer
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    In an attempt to get back on topic here, can someone provide details on the bass management capabilities of the 4802? The manual states it is adjustable, but is not clear if a single crossover setting applies to all channels, or can be set separately for each channel (mains, center, rears).
     
  13. chaz fifer

    chaz fifer Agent

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    The 4802 has an adjustable crossover that lets you set it to 40,60,80,100,or 120.The 4802 is a HUGE step up from a 3802! Even when hooked upto a nice power amp,The 3802 can't even begin to truely compete with a 5800 or 4802! you can give an economy car a $2000 paint job,but its still just an "economy" car.
     
  14. Lou Balch

    Lou Balch Auditioning

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    IF, you're not married to THX post processing, or require the George Lucas seal of approval, AND you already have external amps (as I do), you could add an Outlaw ICBM bass mgmt unit for $250, which will provide you with even MORE flexibility than the 4802, AND still $1000 left over for Xmas. For now, you're not comparing A/V recievers, but A/V preamp processors. For me, I'll take the 3802 AND the $1000.
     
  15. David A. Frattaroli

    David A. Frattaroli Stunt Coordinator

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    How much more power does the 4802 have over the 3802? Is it really 15 watts? That's nothing. That's virtually the same. How many component inputs do most people need? Or optical inputs for that matter.

    It's a perfect case of "diminishing returns". The 4802 is a "better" receiver in that you get more bells and whistles but you have to pay so much more for them.

    The 3802 is definitely the the "sweet spot" of the Denon line in terms of sheer value. For that matter, so is the 2802.
     
  16. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer
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    Chaz,

    Can the adjustable LFE crossover be set separately for each channel, or is it a global setting for all channels? For example, can I set the main channels to 40Hz, the surrounds to 60Hz and the center to 80Hz?
     
  17. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

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  18. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

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    Thanks Mark, a very informative post.
     
  19. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    Mark,

    Posting comments like,

    quote

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    The 3802 with an outlaw 5 channel amp and with the outlaw ICBM would beat the 4802 hands down in HT sound (or for that matter even the 5800).

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    is rather inappropriate. By the way, it isn't completely accurate on a couple of fronts:

    1) Depending on one's speaker sensitivity and room size, one may not actually need external amplification to get appropriate room dyanmics.

    2) The ICBM will not work as a bass management tool unless the speakers are all equidistant from the sweet spot, because it requires the processor's delay settings for each speaker to be set at zero (which means all speakers equidistant).

    I consider "beat hands down" trolling to provoke responses from other posters, and don't think you get as much respect from people with comments like that.

    BruceD
     
  20. OliverG

    OliverG Extra

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    Mark,
    And still you continue, vinny vinny vinny.
     

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