Denon 3802 vs. 4802 (1 Viewer)

[Oliver]

4802 with the top down looks exactly like the 5800

Make no mistake. Like the 4802 plays in another league compared to the 3802 the 5800 also as significant inside changes compared to a much cheaper 4802. Do do not even have to look that much close to see where there are. By the way, there about 16 pounds missing in the 4802 to get up to the build level of the 5800.
------------------

 

[Brian]

JohnnyN,
Dolby Digital Matrix 6.1 sounds a lot like THX surround EX to me. Could you explain the difference?
Thanks,
-Brian C.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

I read in an ad that the 4802 will have the newest DTS 24 bit/96 kHz 5.1 decoding besides DTS-ES Discrete 6.1.
The 24/96 software is another matter.
Dan
------------------
Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!

 

[JohnnyN]

quote: Dolby Digital Matrix 6.1 sounds a lot like THX surround EX to me. Could you explain the difference?[/quote]
movies encoded with thx ex encode a third surround channel into the existing surround left and surround right channels, much the say way dpl movies encode a center channel into the front left and right.
on the one hand you are right. there are many algorithms designed to extract a back channel from the surround... receivers that aren't thx ex can still extract sound from the surrounds for a back channel, but as quoted from the september issue of "Sound & Vision"...
"For EX playback, the film must be mixed in the EX format, you must have an EX decoder, and your receiver must have seven amplifier channels (you can use external amps). The additional two amplifier channels drive the two surround back loudspeakers."
So to reaffirm your side of being correct, some products such as the outlaw 1050 incorporate a custom matrix decoder for playback of ex encoded material and don't pay the THX and DD license fee.
Who is to say which receiver has the best decoding algorithm for surround back channel?? Let your ears decide. But my point was that matrix 6.1 is not thx ex, even if only by name.
Here's a link to the info on THX EX from the THX website. http://www.thx.com/consumer_products/surround_ex.html
------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Somebody has to pay for retail businesses to let us walk in and audition high quality equipment side by side with our own dvd's and movies. I don't mind paying a premium to support this kind of service and convenience, I wish others would consider this when buying discounted b-stock merchandise from shady internet dealers.
JKB
[Edited last by JohnnyN on September 13, 2001 at 09:15 PM]

 

[Timothy J. Trace]

Gee, I've found a different Denon Authorized Retailer, a local B&M, who will sell me a AVR-4802 for $2,299. Wow. :->
When I first spoke to him on the phone, my heart skipped a beat when he said $1,699 for the AVR-4802. But he corrected himself immediately, saying that he had just given me the price for the AVR-4800. Damn the luck.
On another front, I emailed Etronics to find out why their prices were so low, and how they handled warranty coverage. Their reply follows...
"IT IS FACTORY SEALED AND WE WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH A 3RD PARTY 3 YEAR WARRANTY"
I guess the long and the short of it is, can Etronics be trusted? They've been around a long time and have earned high marks...and 550 bucks is still 550 bucks, any way I slice it.
Thanks!
Tim ==

 

[JohnnyN]

check to see if etronics is an authorized denon retailer (not e tailer).
------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Somebody has to pay for retail businesses to let us walk in and audition high quality equipment side by side with our own dvd's and movies. I don't mind paying a premium to support this kind of service and convenience, I wish others would consider this when buying discounted b-stock merchandise from shady internet dealers.
JKB

 

[AaronNWilson]

With respect to the THX vs Dolby Digital 6.1 I think the algoritm that is used for extracting the rear surround channel can be decoded by prologic decoders. This means that the encoding process is the same in THX EX as DD 6.1.
I think that with THX you get something like re-equalization or something like that?
Aaron

 

[TomH]

For a company that claims to place so much importance on their "authorized" dealer system, Denon does not even bother to maintain an up to date list of dealers. Our local B&M (with the huge Denon authorized sign on their door) has never been on the list. Pick any 5 dealers you know to be "authorized" and search the list for them. Denon continues to support the "unauthorized" dealers or they would not have the abundant and endless supply of product.
For those of you who feel that its worth $500 to $700 for the privledge of spending 30 minutes being stroked by a salesman while listening to a few of you favorite tracks,fine. Its your money, just dont tell me how to spend mine.
By the way, price fixing is not legal.

 

[JimH]

I still "struggle" with this debate on B&M versus internet purchasing.
I just purchased the 4802 from a local authorized B&M though I was originally going to purchase on the internet. The local vendor reduced his price to $2,000 and that was close enough to internet pricing that I was comfortable with the extra expense (coupled with all the advantages of a good relationship with their staff, supporting a good local vendor, etc.) However, I have noticed that all the high end stereo shops in my area (Rochester NY) have now specialized by brand (one store sells Marantz, B&K, etc. while another sells Acurus, Sherwood Newcastle while another sells only Pioneer Elite and so forth.) They appear to be adopting lines in such a way as not to have to directly compete with each other, and better resist discounting prices prices. The gap in their pricing versus the interent is widening and while I would like to support them I find myself making more and more internet purchases. I recognize their having higher fixed costs, etc. but I have ended up only being willing to pay a differential if I find their behavior totally honest (pain to listen to some of the salesman with their bogus critiques of other lines) and I have spent much of their time gaining information on their products--i.e., I want to respond and feel I owe something for honest information and advice. I, personally, don't feel comfortable taking a great deal of their time and expertise then just going to the internet when I am ready to make a final decision. Regardless, many of the B&M's may nolonger be a viable business model, unless they specialize in the more esoteric lines and/or broaden their "products" to include sophisticated installation projects, etc. It would be interesting to know a sophisticated owner of one of these shops to hear his/her reasoning and business plans aimed at meeting the internet challenge.

 

[Michael Lee]

Interesting bet, Mark.
It's too bad my Sunfire Amp is rackmounted at my shop. Otherwise I'd bring it home and hook it up to the 3802--the 4802 is right in the next room. I really like the sound of the 4802, I must admit. The price issue though, is a valid point.

 

[Jim_C]

>>Regardless, many of the B&M's may no longer be a viable business model, unless they specialize in the more esoteric lines and/or broaden their "products" to include sophisticated installation projects, etc.

 

[JohnnyN]

Hey Jim, I totally feel you on that one store talking to total trash about another brand... A Yamaha dealer near my house was totally convinced that he'd rather have fisher price than denon.
I highly doubt that anybody would adopt an internet pricing policy. Most Vendors get this funny look on their face at the slightest mention of the internet and it's prices.
How can a vendor with a showroom that spends time on decor, wiring, and hooking up all this equipment to give us a better shopping experience compete with an e tailer and his warehouse.?
Retail prices will always be higher than internet prices, but you can bargain and negotiate and drive a hard sale with salesmen. You can't bargain with a website.
If something goes wrong with your equipment I find it a lot easier to bring it back into the store and walk out with a new one, with internet purchases you have to do extra shipping and receiving and miss out on a few days (never buy television or big screens).
Anyhow. Rest assured you'd made a good decision by paying a slight premium and supporting a local store... you got an AWESOME price, but best of all you bought some peace of mind... now crank that receiver up while you're still under warranty.
------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Somebody has to pay for retail businesses to let us walk in and audition high quality equipment side by side with our own dvd's and movies. I don't mind paying a premium to support this kind of service and convenience, I wish others would consider this when buying discounted b-stock merchandise from shady internet dealers.
JKB

 

[Lewis Besze]

quote: Matrix 6.1 is not the same as THX EX[/quote]
Correct!
The THX EX also gets the usual and very unnecessary THX post processing features,like forced RE-EQ selective decorrelation, electronic timbre matching.
None of those are needed to experience the added benefit of the back surround speaker.And you paying for that big time.
Thankfully these "features" can be disengaged on the 4802,and engage the "matrix 6.1" instead.

------------------
"You Hungarians always disagree"


[Edited last by Lewis Besze on September 14, 2001 at 10:12 PM]