Denon 3802 - anyone wire 8 speakers to it ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Kirk Gunn, Aug 25, 2002.

  1. Kirk Gunn

    Kirk Gunn Screenwriter

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    I've got my new speaker wiring run for Front L/R/C, and also Rear L/R/C, along with 2 side channels. Now I'm having a tough time finding a mid-range receiver to power this potential.

    Seems the Denon 3802 has A/B rear channels (this would power the L/R rears and L/R sides), along with a "Rear Back" channel that can be setup as a rear Center channel. With other receivers, it appears like 7.1 is the "processing du jour" with rear/side channels only (no rear center).

    Can this be done with the Denon 3802 (or any other comparable receiver) and is it worth it ? I still have to purchase speakers for the rear center and side channels. The L/R rears will be Energy direct radiators, but I'm contemplating Mirage omnipolars for the L/R side channels.

    Since the room is 25x25 with the "sweet spot" almost directly in the center, am I crazy for attempting this ?

    Any comments are appreciated (except "get therapy" - which has already been recommended by my wife).
     
  2. itai

    itai Stunt Coordinator

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    Kirk, im not sure i understand your question completly, but heres the 3802 story:
    Correct, the 3802 can actually be hooked to 7.1 speakers, L/C/R and SideR/SideL and BckR/BckL.
    Than, it can switch between two sets of side surrounds, say you have a pair of direct firing for music, and another pair of dipolars for movies.
    If you counted, thats 9(!) speakers wired, but only 7 driven at a time.
    i'd say, for that large a room, a 7.1 setup is recommended.
    was i clear? [​IMG]
    btw, this IS therapy (tell the wife), cheaper, and a lot more fun!!! [​IMG]
     
  3. Kirk Gunn

    Kirk Gunn Screenwriter

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    Thanks itai - here's some clarification:

    - Wired for 3 speakers along the front (L/R/C).

    - Wired for 3 speakers along the rear (L/R/C).

    - Wired 2 (L/R) along the side wall in line with the sweet spot.

    Due to a fireplace, I do not have room for 4 speakers along the rear wall.

    Sounds like the 3802 will handle everything except the rear center. But is there any other comparable rcvr that will hanldle all 8 ?

    Thanks !

    ==========================================

    Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself
     
  4. Geoff S

    Geoff S Stunt Coordinator

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    On my 4802 I think you can drive all at the same time cause in each mode they give you the option of using surround speaker A, B or A+B along with the surround back speakers. I think the same is true on the 3802, but I haven't tried this mode, and I know Itai owns a 3802 so he should know the specifics of that machine.

    Point is there's an alternative if it doesn't work, just add another 2 channel amp to drive a second set of surround speakers.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

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    I think all the Denon receivers can have both A+B selected. It just isnt reccommended.
     
  6. JamesY

    JamesY Stunt Coordinator

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    The two that come to mind are the new Yamaha RX-Z1 receiver and the new Sunfire Grand. Both amplify a full 8 channels. I have a 3802 and have tried 7.1, which I think sounds really good. I don't know if you really need the extra center back channel since their aren't that many ES or EX discs to begin with. Then again, you may like using the matrixing feature on the receiver for your 5.1 titles.
     
  7. itai

    itai Stunt Coordinator

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    kirk
    no prob, the denon lets you connect only one back center if you wish. it runs as 5.1/6.1/7.1, you just dial in the numbers.
    you'll have:
    3 speakers along the front (L/R/C).
    2 speakers along the sides (SL/SR).
    2 speakers along the rear (RL/RR). (or just one)
    that's 7 not 8...
    [​IMG]
    geoff, the 3802 also has a+b, have know idea how it works...is it sharing two amps to power 4 speakers?
     
  8. Robb Roy

    Robb Roy Supporting Actor

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    For the eight speakers you will have:

    2 mains
    1 front center channel
    2 sides (surrounds A)
    2 rears (surrounds B)
    1 rear center channel (SB channel)
    ___
    8 speakers

    The 3802 has nine speaker terminals. You will not be driving all 8 (or 9) speakers, however. You will drive either 7 speakers or 6 (7 if you use two SB speakers). For most material you will drive surrounds A+B. When you have EX material, you will drive surrounds A OR B, plus the SB channel (if you have only one speaker for that, make certain to put it in the Left SB channel speaker terminals on the 3802). I do not believe you can alter the speaker assignment without going into the setup screens, but as has been mentioned here, since there are so few EX recordings you shouldn't need to get in there often.

    HTH
     
  9. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Yes you can run all of them simultaniously,there should be an option for A+B setting,that means it can run 6 surrounds,+ the 3 fronts.
    I did that with my 3801,but it was a "mess".
    The surround field was a big incohesive "cloud".
    Try it for your self.
     
  10. Kirk Gunn

    Kirk Gunn Screenwriter

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    Lewis - did you have one set of rears mounted as sides ? I'm hoping that with proper SPL balancing, I can make it appear less "cloudy".

    Or... I can always wait until I can afford a Lexicon or another receiver that does true "7.1" decoding with side channels. The HK 520 has a 7.1 DSP, but I'm unsure if it's merely more rear channels (as the 3802 apparently is) or if it sends discrete signals to the sides.

    Thanks
     
  11. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Yes I had the same set up as Denon had it in the manual.
    The 2 sides were bipolar [like my fronts],the 2 towards the rear "corner" were monopole,so were the 2 back surrounds.
    All speakers were roughly at the same height.
    What happened is almost all of the directional movement between the rears[if the movie called for that]became one "cloud".
    More just isn't better in this case IMO.
    I don't have any experience with L7,so I can't comment on that.
    The HK 520 however can't do any "true" 7.1,as it 's L7 can only be utilized with 2ch PCM or analog 2ch sources.
     
  12. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

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    When I was choosing a rcvr I very much wanted to run two wide dispersion side surrounnds and two direct radiating rear surrounds and I wanted 7.1(6.1) ...I had found in the hundreds of customer set-ups that I had done that I prefered wide dispersions for movies but often prefered direct rear radiators for sacd/dvda....not wanting 3 or 4 speakers along my back wall in order to do this (plus ex/es) and wanting to switch quickly between the possible configurations were a couple of the reasons that I liked the B&K AVR307......I have been hoping that Denon would offer this kind of flexibility soon......
     
  13. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    You could do the switching with Denon as well,you could even select if you wanted to use surr A or B for DD/DTS and the one ot the other for the DSP simulations.
    The EX speakers could have been switched separatelly as well from the other surrounds,as long as you configured the system as 6/7 channels at the initial set up.
     
  14. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

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    Kirk,

    I'm running 8 Klispch Legends with my 3802 and it sounds awesome. Talk about filling the room with sound. Eventually I'll go to 9 when I add a second Back Center speaker for 7.1

    True the A+B Surround set-up does split the amp for that channel, but my speakers are 8 ohm and around 98dB efficient, so it's not a problem.

    Good luck...Mike
     
  15. Kirk Gunn

    Kirk Gunn Screenwriter

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    Thanks folks - I'd love to move up to the B&K but that "B" word keeps entering my planning (BUDGET)...

    I'm limited to ~ 800.00 since I'm also picking up an RPTV in addition to the new basement job. I currently have a 3300 in the family room that I'm quite happy with, so the 3802 should keep my current standard. Any comments on what additional features the 3803 will bring ? Have there been any new surround formats introduced lately that I missed ?
     
  16. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

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    Lewis, I want to be able to use my "surround back"(ie; 7.1*(6.1 out of the rear 2 speakers) as 5.1 "rears" without 4 speakers along my back wall, if you think about it for a minute ,you'll understand the Denon's limitation.....
     
  17. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

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    duplicate somehow
     
  18. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Matt,
    I'm not following you,can you explain?
    I've reread your other post as well,but I'm not sure what you meant.other what I originally thought you've meant.
     
  19. Richard_M

    Richard_M Second Unit

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    Kirk,

    I am running a 3802 with all 9 speakers connected and running at the same time.

    The mains & center are off a power amp & the Denon is driving the a&b surrounds and 2X center rears.

    I am using B&W 602's for the surrounds and center rears.

    I love the sound and so does everyone that comes and listens to my system. Panning sounds fantastic and directional sounds are easily located.

    Once you have used an SPL meter to set the levels everything just falls into place, even running in 7ch mode for stereo sounds good.

    My suggestion would be to borrow or use some old speakers and give it a try, BTW I have not tried this configuration with dipole speakers.

    Mine has been running like this for nearly 12 months with no drama's.

    Enjoy!!

    Richard
     
  20. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

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    The denons don't allow you to use the surround back speakers in 5.1 only (you must use surround "B" for this) ,as I don't want 3 or 4 speakers along my back wall I want the surround backs to EITHER PLAY 6.1/7.1 OR rear surrounds in 5.1 (especially for SACD/DVDA/CONCERT DVD'S)...
    i ALSO want to be able to "shift on the fly" between "surround 5 side", "surround 5 back", and "surround 7" (both side and rears playing same sound), and "surround 6" (side surrounds w/ both rears playing 6.1/7.1).......
     

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