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Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Kevin_F, Feb 3, 2005.
Based on your experiences, how do these receivers compare?
You know what??? So many people are asking this. I am going to have to really at least audition this Pioneer model, I have not as of yet.
I'd think the non-digtal amp would be much better, but I may just be old school on these matters.
Non digital amp? Which is that? One thing I noticed about the Pioneer is tht it has less inputs than the Denon, for me that is a big thing, I know that I will definitely use the 3 component video ins the Denon has
Kevin, for3 Comp inputs, you need to wait for the 1015tx.
Well, isn't comparing a $500 and $900 receiver kinda unfair?
The Pioneer has newer "digital amp" technology.
Lighter, less power draw on the AC side. They typically don't even come close on THD numbers though. I really just don't know much about them or have any experience with them is all.
"The Pioneer has newer "digital amp" technology."
Huh? The 1014TX is basically the same as the 52TX, and I don't think either of those has what anyone would consider digital amplification - at least not the same digital as you'd find in new Panasonics, etc. Maybe we're mixing those two "P" manufacturers?
There are a bunch of 1014 threads here (and elsewhere ;~), including one in this forum that's gotten huge (even bigger than Jabba the Hut). I'd bet there are some more details in there...
I know it si difficult comparing receivers with a $400 difference. I just wanted to make sure that I couldn't get the $900 receiver for $500
I've had quite a bit of experience with the 2805 and with a Pioneer VSX-45TX, a precursor to the 1014.
The 2805 has lotsa cool features, virtually the same as most $1.2k receivers, and they all work just fine.
Problem is that it sounds sorta thin compared to the Pioneer, as Frodo would say "like butter spread over too much bread." I think the 2805 is sorta like a 1.2k receiver feature set tacked onto a $299 receiver amp section. It gets a bit harsh sounding at high volumes whereas the Pioneer never sounded strained.
As a pre-pro with separate amplification I don't think the 2805 could be beat at anywhere near it's price, but if you don't want to go that route I'd go with the cheaper Pioneer. Give up a couple of features for a bit better basic performance.
Now, if you're looking at $899 receivers (B&M list for the 2805, you won't get it much cheaper and still have a warranty) you might consider a Harman Kardon AVR-635 from OneCall. Blows both the 1014 and 2805 away for under $900 shipped, has the best auto-setup/eq system on the market at this time, even eq's the sub which the 2805 and 1014 don't. It's 75wpc rating is very very conservative. In reality it plays louder and cleaner than the Denon or the Pioneer.
Not sure about the 635 but the 2805 will have more 1&2 channel output than the 630. The 630 would have slightly more 5&7 channel output than the 2805.
The 1014, reportedly can do 5X125 at 1% THD, should have more power than the 630. HK rated their power output conservatively but that does not automatically mean their 75WPC beats their competitor's 120WPC.
Just reporting my own experience with the 3 recievers. Granted my 45tx is not a 1014, but it's power spec is actually higher in that it's rated at 20-20,000 hz vs 1000hz for the 1014 and is nearly 10lb heavier.
Academic in a way and not fair to the 1014 when price is taken into account. With street and internet pricing ( with warranty) ranging from $400ish to $699 the 1014 is imho the absolute best bang for the buck out there right now. I am also of the opinion that as far as real power and basic sound performance it is superior to the Denon 2805.
The main thing I was trying to express was that the 635 at internet pricing (and Onecall as well as Vann's are authorized so your warranty is good) is a significantly superior unit to the Denon 2805 which is not available with a warranty for less.
Too many people over analyze these receiver specs for whatever reason. Specs alone tell you nothing in reality unless they are measured by a trusted pro reviewer using appropiate equipment. Then you still have to trust what you are being told.
Reputation still means something and HK has been building superior audio gear for a very long time. I have 30 and 45 watt receivers (stereo/vintage) that tear up most 100 watt receivers.
In reality there is little difference between a 75 watt receiver and a 100 watt receiver as far as pure SPL is concerned. Throw in a good powered sub, take the low bass off of the receiver/amp and 50wpc will drive any system crazy with more sound pressure than you need or want.
I agree with Steve. . . I owned a 45TX Elite for a couple years untill very recently and now for temp I am using the 1014 with great success. I bought it strictly on trust from what I read on this forum and I certainly have not been disapointed. . . Matter of fact I like it better than my Elite VSX45TX. . . Much better. . . Easier to use and as far as power or sound quality you got to have much better ears than mine to tell the difference.
I can not speak to reliability or any other issues other than how it works in a 5.1/7.1 HT system. I only connect a DVD player to mine as that is all it gets used for, movies only, nothing else. At its price point (1014) there is no other choice. . .
So from what both Steve and Guy are telling me, taking price out of the equation, if you had to choose between the 2805, 1014, 635 and 45THX, you both would choose the 1014? And this is based off actually using/hearing all units?
id go with the 635, as the settings are not "global"
Of course at 1299.00 I would pick the 635 but I wasnt talking about the 1300 dollar price point. . . I could get three 1014s for that money. . . or two at full pop. . .
I know you said take cost out but the HK is not at the same level. . . Now the 635 or the Elite 54/56TXi would be a toss up. . .
actually the 1014 is rated at 20-20khz as well, it tested 125x5 20-20khz at 0.1% thd.
Taking price out of the equation, I'd definitely go with the 635. Putting price into the equation I'd go with the 1014. This is based on having used the 2805, the 635, and the 45tx whose power and MCACC feature is so close to the 1014 as to be negligible. It is also based on the assumption that no external amplification is going to be used, just what's built into the receiver.
Since the 635 can be had from a couple of authorized internet sources for about the same price as a 2805 from an authorized Denon dealer (the only way to get a Denon warranty) the $1299 msrp is not nearly as forbidding.
One is still looking at a real-world gap of 300-400 between the price of the 1014 and the 635 or 2805. If one's budget can stretch to $850 I think the 635 is very much worth the extra money, but imho the 2805 is not.
I think the extra features of the 635, especially it's unique auto-eq system which does a parametric eq even on the sub are well worth the extra money.
Long diatribe shortenned:
1014--Basic performance about equal to that of most $1200 receivers, feature set similar to most $400 msrp models, MCACC a plus. My 45tx had about the same auto eq feature, it is definitely an improvement over no auto-eq, won't do anything with sub frequencies, is a graphic eq not parametric.
2805--Basic performance of an average $400 msrp receiver with feature set comparable to many $1200 models. Auto EQ only a little better than that of the Pioneer--it is parametric but again doesn't do anything to the sub other than level and phase adjustment.
635--feature set and basic performance comparable to most $1200 receivers, Auto eq quantum leap above the others in it's price class, does parametric eq on all speakers incuding the sub. Imagine an automatic Behringer feedback destroyer and you get the idea. I've used the $130 BFD in conjunction with both the 2805 and 45tx, the 635 does it better in a couple of minutes than I could do with hours of spl meter reading and fiddling with the BFD. The results with the rest of the speakers are also far superior. After running the 635's auto eq it honestly sounded like a completely different and much better set of speakers. This was without going back in and manually changing any settings, things I did have to do with the 45tx and 2805.
The Denon 5805 and upcoming 4806 are said to use the same TI auto-eq chip, but cost 3 to 4 times the price.
At 500ish, the 1014 is a no-brainer, at 850ish the 635 is imho the best choice among these units.
Thanks Steve, I am going to attempt to listen to some of these receivers tomorrow and hope to have a better idea after that.
I must say that at the beginning of the week, I was dead set on the 2805, but after reading numerous threads here and on avsforum.com, I can honestly say that I am now more down the middle between the 2805 and 1014.
I have just found some refurbished 3805s by Denon, from authorized websites and am also considering these.
I had no idea choosing a receiver was this fun/aggravating
In the end, if it comes down to the 1014, 2805 or refurbished 3805, whichever I choose I hope to have a smile on my face when everything is set up.
I finally got to listen to some of these receivers today and here is what I found. I was able to listen the the Denon 2805, Denon 3805, Pioneer 1014 and Yamaha 750. I was able to listen to them all in the same store in the same room, connected to the same speakers and all playing a cd that I brought with me. Each time I changed receivers they began the cd from the beginning so that I heard the same songs everytime. Each receiver was initially turned down, I cranked each one, not to max, but loud enough that my friend standing next to me couldn't hear me talking to him. All sounded good, and this is based on what I heard and how I like my sounds, my order of preference is as follows:
Denon 3805 - Most clear of them all, when I turned it up, it stayed clear but the speaker was reaching a point where it couldn't handle the power. The bass was how I like it.
Denon 2805 - Also clear, but not as much as the 3805. I was able to crank it close to the max on the speaker, but again, the 3805's extra power was evident.
Pioneer - Sounded good, seems to have decent power and good bass, but didn't sound as nice as the Denons
Yamaha - Sounded good, but not what I am looking for. Not enough bass as I want but clear.
After demoing these all, I can see why everyone says to hear them for myself. I am glad that I did.
My next decision is now which to buy a new 2805 or a refurbished 3805 from Denon.
And don't be swayed.. I actually love and prefer that Denon power amp sound myself over like all others.
I take some flack at times for posting as such, but that is just me being honest.
Thanks for your impressions of each piece of equipment.