Denon 2802 vs.....

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Don Morrison, Jul 6, 2002.

  1. Don Morrison

    Don Morrison Agent

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    Being new to this whole HT addiction, I am considering buying the Denon 1803 when it comes out in fall. Seems as though it will be very much like the 2802. I definitely want to be able to expand this system in the long run and maybe get a good few years out of it before having to upgrade.
    I am considering the following:
    Denon 1803 (http://www.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/avr1803.pdf)
    Yamaha 5560
    Sony 1075
    Onkyo 600
    Opinions? Comments? Suggestions?
     
  2. Matthew Furtek

    Matthew Furtek Stunt Coordinator

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    Don,
    Heads up on the Onkyo 600 and the Yamaha 5560. A HTF member (Norman L) suffered pretty bad speaker damage when his speakers were run off of the Onkyo 600. This was due to not enough power being sent to his speakers (Onkyo claimed 80 X 5 Watts of power minimum).

    He tested a bunch of the receivers and the Yamaha also was underpowered. I'm not sure what sort of speakers you have, but just be aware that manufacturer claims of wattage may not be correct.

    Matthew Furtek
     
  3. Jorge Rod

    Jorge Rod Agent

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    I am also considering similar receivers for my system. I prefer the Denon 1802 over Onkyo 600 and Yamaha 5560 for Salsa / Latin Jazz (which was I listen the most). Denon sound was balance, while Yamaha seems to emphasize the high range over the mids and lows. I played a little with the Yamaha settings, but could not find something even close to "Denon quality". The Onkyo was in between the two.

    I'll be using the system 70 / 30 (movies/music).

    I am thinking in getting the 2802 for the extra HT features. Also, considering waiting for the 1803. Does anybody know when is this coming out and what is the price range?

    Jorge
     
  4. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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  5. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    I would wait to see what features the 1803 will have. From Denon marketing material, there was no mention of preouts for all channels, which if true, hurts the upgradability of it. I just got the 2802 from 6ave.com for a very good price. The 1803 personally makes me a little nervous, seeing as how it is a $300 drop from the msrp price of the 2802. I was afraid that the price cuts may come at the cost of quality.
     
  6. BobJ

    BobJ Stunt Coordinator

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  7. Aaron H

    Aaron H Supporting Actor

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    How do you damage speakers by not sending enough pwer to them?

    Aaron
     
  8. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

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    Aaron,

    Norman L's speakers were 50W minimum rated. The Onk 600 in multi-channel delivered 37W despite it's rating. He didn't know this. Even with this situation, there might not be a problem with low volume but when volume is raised as in HT and content reaches peak levels...something's gotta give.
     
  9. Sebastien David

    Sebastien David Second Unit

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    aaron,

    this phenomenon is called "clipping".
    basically, imagine the sound is a "wave", and that wave, when the volume is pushed too high, exceeds the power limits of the amplifier.
    then the signal is "clipped" at the top and bottom of the "wave", resulting in heavy distortion, that will blow a tweeter on your speakers faster than you can say "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious"!
    too much power is much better than not enough, as too much power could only result in damage if applied for long periods of time, and your ears would probably bleed before the speakers get damaged.
     
  10. Don Morrison

    Don Morrison Agent

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    I am wondering how many times you typed that before you got the spelling right!!

    Thanks for the help...I am going to wait on teh 1803 and see if it measures up... My wife is about to kill me as it for the money I just spend on speakers and wires, not to mention the TV....so I have some time anyway.
     
  11. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, it sounds like his speakers were a casualty of clipping. but interms of the "50 wminimum power rating," this minimum power rating only has to do with how loud the speaker will go, not the amount of power the speaker needs pumped into it at all times. The 50 w minimum rating is only a rating for the power that the amp needs to be to approach near-reference level listening(~85-90dB) You can drive any speaker with a 5 watt tube amp, but to drive it loud, without clipping, you will need power, and lots of it.
     
  12. Aaron Cooke

    Aaron Cooke Second Unit

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    ok, i posted another thread earlier today about amps and heat, but i apparently have also damaged my speakers (def tech 2002's) I was watching a dvd at extreme volumes, noticed a burning smell and checked my amp (a B&K 7270)which was very hot...too hot to touch. Now I just turned it back on and 3 out of 4 of my speakers midrange drivers aren't working. Which i'm assuming was the burning smell. My questions are...1. Why did the midranges blow when the tweeters still work fine. 2. How can i tell if my amp was clipping or not. I mean is it something i would notice...the sound was fine while i was listening...at least it seemed fine to me. I figured at 200w per channel the 7270 would have plenty of power to drive my Def. Techs. Any answers/suggestions would be appreciated. Also what do you think i should do now...i've been contemplating upgrading to some B&Ws for a while maybe i'll just sell off the def tech's as they are and spring for entirely new speakers. I know the def techs are past warranty. But i want to be absolutly sure I can avoid this happening again before i do anything.
     

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