Denon 2802, enough power for HT?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Kyle_Y, Dec 5, 2001.

  1. Kyle_Y

    Kyle_Y Stunt Coordinator

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    Thinking of buying a Denon 2802, but it only has 90x6 watts. Should I buy an Onkyo 696 instead, since it is 100x5 watts? Or will it not make a difference? I guess, the question is also, should I go for a little more power and a better remote in the 696, or DTSES and and the full version of PLII in the 2802?
     
  2. Craig W

    Craig W Second Unit

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    You are not going to notice a difference between 90wpc and 100wpc. Doubling the power theoretically get you a 3dB max volume increase. A lot of the volume capability also depends on your speaker efficiency.
     
  3. Bryan Acevedo

    Bryan Acevedo Second Unit

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    OK - a couple of things:
    First, I wouldn't base the buying of a receiver on the remote control. You can easily upgrade any remote to a better one, but it it is much more expensive to upgrade an entire receiver if you find it lacking! [​IMG]
    Second, the Onkyo actually has less power than the Denon. Sound & Vision tested both receivers. With 5 channels driven, the Onkyo put out 46W, while the Denon put out 74W. Also, the Onkyo put out less power at 4 ohms, while the Denon increased its output. This indicates a more stable power supply. The Denon would be able to handle difficult speaker loads easier than the Onkyo.
    I would also prefer the full version of DPLII (my 3802 has it) and DTS ES discrete can't hurt for a future upgrade path. I think the 2802 is quite a step up from a 696, but that is my opinion. I am a Denon guy, so you know what my bias will be! I like the Denon sound.
    Bryan
     
  4. Kyle_Y

    Kyle_Y Stunt Coordinator

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    How much is one db? Is an increase of one decible a lot? Also, how loud is it when a speaker is given one watt? For instance, if I am listening at soft volumes, is that about 10 watts, or is that way more/less? I don't get the whole db/watt thing, could someone please explain.
     
  5. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    The whole speaker and wattage thing:

    An increase in 1 dB is very hard to notice. 2 dB is easier and 3 dB is obvious. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong people) that a 10 dB increase in sound reflects a perceived "doubling" in the loudness.

    It depends on your speakers. First, a relative level of loudness. I find anything over 85 dB to be very loud in my experience. I do not listen to music over 100 dB in my home. Sometimes when watching movies, I will probably listen to peaks over 100 dB.

    Most speakers are rated in terms of their efficiency in terms of the dB they put out under one watt. Speakers range from about 82 dB/1 watt/1 meter to about 98 dB. You will find most speakers fall roughly around 90 dB/1 watt/1 meter. Generally though, if you want to save yourself trouble, stay away from in-efficient speakers, unless you have lots of money to spend on power. I recommend speakers rated 89dB anaechoic or higher. I have speakers rated 91 dB anechoic and they work well with my Marantz SR 6200 in terms of sound quality, loudness etc. Anechoic just means the dB rating is for the speaker in a sound testing room that is "anechoic" and has no echos at all. Add 2 to 3 db for approximate room loudness. For instance, my speakers are rated at 91 dB anechoic and 93 dB room. Those figures are from the manufacturer.

    Good luck looking for speakers. Here is one hint. More watts means louder and often cleaner sound. A more efficient speaker means much the same thing, louder and cleaner; You can often find a more efficient speaker, and it won't cost more than a less efficient speaker. So with that in mind, as long as the sound quality is good, and you like the sound, seriously consider the more efficient speaker over the lesser efficient speaker. When buying a receiver, more watts ALWAYS cost more money. Don't concern yourself with wattage "ratings" differences of less than 25 watts or so. It is nice to know that an amp/receiver can put out lots of current though. If a receiver cannot put out the current, then, effectively, you can't use the wattage, because the so-called wattage is usually given as into 6 or 8 ohms. If the amp can't handle 4 ohms, which a 6 ohm speaker will have as a resistance over at least part of its range, then you won't get the rated wattage from the receiver.

    So bottom line:

    1) Shop for speakers knowing that watts cost money and more efficient speakers are a way of getting "watts" without paying amplifier watts.

    2) Don't worry about small differences in manufacturers quoted wattage ratings. Looks for amps to deliver current.
     

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