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Denon 1804 – Zone 2 question

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by DonRo, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. DonRo

    DonRo Extra

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    My Denon DVD-2200 and AVR-1804 arrived yesterday and I will hopefully be hooking them up and doing the calibration with a reference DVD this weekend. I read in another thread (“denon receiver” from 12 January) that the 2803 cannot output digital input to zone 2.

    I assume by “zone 2” they are referring to the “B” speaker connections? I was planning on connecting my DVD-2200 to my 1804 via digital-coax and the 5.1 “external in” only (and running the video directly to my TV.)

    Note: I was told by a Denon support service rep (here in Germany) that in order to take advantage of SACD you have to use the 5.1 connections because of decoding issues. There is also a reference note to this affect in the user manual.

    The problem is I plan to use the 2200 to play audio CD’s (plus I will also want to output digital radio reception via a SAT receiver in the near future) ...and I will want that output to go *stereo* to my Klipsch’s (will connect to B) in another room. Does this mean I need to make a 3rd “audio” connection between the 2200 and 1804 to get an analog input for my “B” speakers? Can this cause problems when the same device (in this case my 2200) is sending output to 3 different input channels simultaneously?

    Obviously the signals from my turntable and tape deck won’t be a problem. Can anyone set me straight here?

    A sincere thanks in advance for your time and assistance.
    Home Theater “newbie” Don currently residing in Germany
     
  2. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    Zone 2 is not the same as B speakers.

    First, let me explain what true multi-zone capability is so you can understand. For Denon, the 2803 and up are true multi-zone. The idea for multi zone is to be able to listen to source A (say a DVD) in 5.1 in the main room and source B (say a CD) in a different room at the same time. So that is 7 speakers playing at the same time, so you need 7 amplifiers.

    The 1804 only has 6 amplifiers, so you will only have a mono speaker in Zone 2. You can connect an external amplifier to power Zone 2 for full functionality.

    For all Denon receivers, you can only output analog sources to Zone 2 because all the digital decoders are busy for the main zone. You are correct in needing the digital and 5.1 analog connections. I have the 3803 and have also made the 3rd connection as you mentioned. I have an extra pair of analog cables going from the 2nd outputs on the 2900(or 2200 in your case) to the analog DVD inputs so I can hear the DVD player in Zone 2.

    Main speakers A and B are not meant to be used at the same time. You can hook up your Kilpsch speakers to the 'B' terminal, but you will not be able to use them at the same time as the main room speakers.

    In your case, since you really won't be using Zone 2, you will not need the 3rd connection. The digital connection is fine because the 'B' speakers are really being used as main zone speakers.
     
  3. DonRo

    DonRo Extra

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    Thanks for your explanation Brian! Ok, so I am good on getting any and all sources out to my Klipsch’s with my current understanding/plan then. When you say:


    ...dose that mean I can not have audio sound going to my surround-sound speaker (A) in stereo-mode only, while having the same stereo signal going to my Klipsch’s (B)?
    That would inhale through pursed lips... as that would mean if I am entertaining and a couple of folks have gathered in the TV room to get out of the smoke etc. that there will be no music available.

    So output to A/B speakers is truly an either or with the AVR-1804? Poop!

    Thanks again for taking your time out to assist the un-informed! Don
     
  4. John S

    John S Producer

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    There are some cheap decent amps out there that can make this happen for you....

    Do a search on an AudioSource Amp/1A or something like that.

    I picked a refurb up for like $100 before xmas there for somebody that basically wanted to do the same thing you are, worked like a champ.
     
  5. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    I am not 100% sure about that. Some receivers will let you play the same thing on speakers A and B at the same time, but power will be cut in half so the results may not be that great. Some receivers won't let you do it at all.

    Hopefully an 1804 user will be able to answer for sure.
     
  6. DonRo

    DonRo Extra

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    Thanks John and Brian (again).

    My old Technics integrated class A amp let me do that, but with a noticeable loss in dB’s as Brian said. I guess it is logical that the 1804 would do the same. Normally I will be listening to either stereo from an audio source in the dinning/living area with the Klipsch’s... or watching DVD/digital SAT in the TV-room via the Canton’s (surround-sound speakers.) I'll just have to crank the mains up when we party. ;-) I guess I spaced when I confused "zone" with "A/B" speaker selection. Like I said... I am very new to all of this HT technology.

    Thanks again for your valuable and clarifying input.
    Greetings from the Land of sauerkraut and beer... Don
     
  7. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    Do you still have the old Technics? Or any old receiver for that matter? You could use either as the amp for Zone 2.
     
  8. DonRo

    DonRo Extra

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    Morning Brian...

    Sorry I missed your post last night. With the time difference (6 hours to the east coast) I didn't get on the net again last evening.

    Yes, I still have my old amp. I was planning on giving my old Technics stereo system (separates: amp, tuner, CD-changer, graphic equalizer, and tape deck) to my son though to replace his mini-system.

    Is there information on how to set up an amp for a second zone on the forum here? I have read through all the "basic" stuff and didn't see it. Only my DVD-2200 has more than one output. How do I get devices like turnatables and tape decks connected to both the AVR-1804 and an additional amp. Do I simply need a switch?
     
  9. DonRo

    DonRo Extra

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    Sorry about bumping this to the top again... but my new confusion is basically the same thread.

    Note to Brian L, from Albuquerque if you see this... (* naturally I would appreciate input from anyone who can help set me straight.) Getting answers from Denon has not be particularly easy.

    All this talk about A/B speaker selections and zones in conjunction with connections caused me to go back and re-read a thread Brian L did in the primer entitled “Universal and Hi-Rez (DVD-A and SACD) Player FAQ”

    If I understood this correctly I have to connect my DVD-2200 to my AVR-1804 with three separate connections:

    1. digital coax – for Dolby Digital or DTS playback from DVD movies
    2. analog 5.1 – for SACD and DVD-A, i.e. HiRez audio
    ...and
    3. analog stereo L/R – for regular CD audio playback in two channel (stereo.)

    Note: I will be using the 2200 as my primary audio CD player too. One of the major reasons I went with the 2200, was the exceptional audio CD playback it provided in addition to being able to enjoy either DVD-A/SACD sources as well as having progressive scan if I decide to add an appropriate projector at some point in the future. I will definitely be playing more audio CD’s than DVD’s on it though.

    I had assumed that I could play regular old audio CD’s in a stereo mode, using either connection 1 or 2 above. But now I am unsure and I assume I must additionally use connection type #3 (from above)? Or am I all mixed up?

    Another question now is... assuming the decoder in the 2200 is as good as that in 1804... then isn’t the digital coax connection redundant? Naturally I have no idea which decoder might be better, and if I don’t need it, it’s also a major bummer because I already ordered a fairly decent (expensive) cable.

    Help?
     
  10. Lee Distad

    Lee Distad Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Don,

    You will be able to use the optical/coax connection for both surround and stereo PCM signal.

    The analog 5.1 will be used for both 2-channel or multi-channel SACD and DVD-A.

    When choosing between them, you have to use the button on the console of the DVD2200 to select "STEREO" "MULTI" or "CD"

    I hope that this helps somewhat.
     
  11. DonRo

    DonRo Extra

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    Hi Lee...

    It definitely helped! You have really made my day... now knowing that I didn't get the wrong cable, and that stereo PCM (meaning audio CD source I assume) will be doable. Thanks! Don
     
  12. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    Don,

    You do not need to connect everything else to the Technics. The 1804 takes care of everything for you. First, plug everything in to the 1804. Then, notice the 2 jacks that say 'Zone 2 out' on the back of the 1804. Hook a pair of wires from that to any input on the Technics. Select that input on the Technics. Also, go into the menu of the 1804 and find the setting for Power Amp assignment and set it to Surround Back. Now, you can do anything you want in the main room. I have the 3803 so things may work slightly different, but I downloaded the manual so I can follow along. Page 42 of the manual explains how to select a source for zone 2. The 1804 will send a different sounce (than is playing in the main room) to the Technics. So if you are watching a DVD in the main room and want to listen to a tape in zone 2, set the zone 2 source to tape (as described on pg 42) The 1804 will send the tape deck to the Technics at the same time. You can also select the same thing for zone 2 and it will play in both at the same time. Everything runs through the 1804, the Technics only powers the speakers. It is really neat once you get it going. I use my Zone 2 all the time.

    I hope that clears some things up for you. If you have more questions let me know, or feel free to email me (use the little icons above my post).
     

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