Denon 1803 and Pre-Out (Subwoofer) Question

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Joe Mihok, Feb 2, 2004.

  1. Joe Mihok

    Joe Mihok Second Unit

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    I listen to music in "DIRECT" mode and I run it this way because I assumed this bypasses the subwoofer, however it's not. I'm kinda tired of going up to the sub and manually shutting it off when I want to listen to music. Anyone know why this is happening ? Also, another funny thing is happening. When I tell the amp I have no sub (in the system setup), the subwoofer is still being used ...... I have no idea why this happens either. I have the sub hooked up through a high quality RCA cable with a y-splitter. The sub is a DAVID 250 D-BOX.

    Some other strange things occur with the sub and reciever as well. For some reason I set the crossover freq on the Denon to 80hz, yet it's still sending bass above the 80 Hz mark to the sub (i assume this because the sub is producing sound above 80hz). The sub's xover is set to max as I thoguht the Denon would do the cut-off ... however it is not and I now am forced to manually tune the sub to 80hz via the "x-over knob".

    Can anyone tell me why this is happening ? Thanks a bunch [​IMG]
     
  2. Nathan Stohler

    Nathan Stohler Second Unit

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    Joe,

    The crossover is probably gradual. That is, 80 Hz is where the receiver will start to gradually filter out the bass (a certain number of decibels per octave). The rate at which this occurs depends upon the order of the filter (a first-order filter, for example, will slope off more gradually than a second-order filter). This is done to ensure a more smooth transition between your subwoofer and other speakers.

    I don't know why your receiver would still be sending a signal to your sub if you are telling it there is no sub. Maybe someone who is familiar with Denon receivers can answer that.

    I'm just curious: why don't you want your sub on when you listen to music?

    --Nathan
     
  3. Joe Mihok

    Joe Mihok Second Unit

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    because my sub isn't the best out there. it can get quite boomy sometimes. while it works well for HT in most cases, it doesn't do so well for music. I'm gonna upgrade to a SVS one of these days but not for a while.
     
  4. John S

    John S Producer

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    I am not to sure how my system reacts, I don't use the Pure Direct mode to much.

    I use 7 channel stereo, and I am virtually positive if I say no sub, there is no output to the sub though.

    I have a Denon 4802.
     
  5. dan-0

    dan-0 Stunt Coordinator

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    Direct mode sends the full bass signal to your speakers and sub. This eliminates the bass managament circuitry.

    Stereo mode would at least use the receivers crossover settings.

    I too am stumped on why your bass continues to receive a signal when turned off in the receivers setup menu.

    I have a 2803.
     
  6. Luitz

    Luitz Stunt Coordinator

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    Uhmm Direct mode bypass all preamp electronics including Subwoofer.
    Stereo mode works the xover in the reciever and allows the sub to play.

    Also what are you using for the preout from the reciever. Sounds to me ur using the 2channel preout and no the Sw preout.
     
  7. Joe Mihok

    Joe Mihok Second Unit

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    I'm using the Subwoofer Pre-out (single RCA out). The Y-splitter is at the subs end. It looks very "fail safe" (the way I have it setup). So does DIRECT mode use the sub or not ? By the looks of things in my situation, DIRECT mode sends the full bass signal like Dan mentioned. I'll try STEREO mode when I get home just to see what happens.
     
  8. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    Joe: In Denon Direct mode, the sub can indeed play. (If you want more detailed info on Denon's bass management, just yell and I'll look up an earlier post I've made on the whole deal.) The sub can be turned off for just the Direct mode if you want. Just perform the separate channel level adjustment (NOT the one in the main setup menu.) I don't have your manual handy but typically this means using the select/enter button on the remote and using the up/down arrow keys to adjust each channel's level. Turn the sub down one notch below -12 and it should go to off.

    If you have the mains set as Large and the sub set to off, and you still get sub output, you may need to do a processor reset. The reset procedure is normally detailed toward the back of the owners manual. This will reset the unit back to it's out of the box defaults. You will lose any changes you've made to FM stations, separate mode channel levels and such but it should cure any quirks.

    As for the bass above 80 Hz, Nathan is right. The lowpass filter that the sub is ran through is not a brick wall. So bass above the crossover freq is played, just at a reduced level. (Denon lowpass filters are 24 db/octave so at 160 Hz (one octave above 80 Hz) the signal would be 24 db lower in volume. Of course if your room has a bass peak around 100 Hz, it's possible it could actually get louder (because of the room) before the level begins to taper off.)
     
  9. Joe Mihok

    Joe Mihok Second Unit

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    Excellent info! Thanks Chuck!

    Man, sufwoofers seem so simple yet so complicated at the same time [​IMG].
     

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