Denon 1802 better than 1803

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by GregMcKi, Oct 27, 2002.

  1. GregMcKi

    GregMcKi Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I’m in the market for a new reciever to work with my Vaf speakers (DC-X’s)
    www.vaf.com.au
    Anyway after visiting a local store I was informed that in the salesman opinion the 1802 was better than the 1803. As both where there side by side, I listened to them with the same speakers and set for the same settings.
    Dare I say it, the difference was noticeable; the 1802 sounded better; is there any known difference In the amplication elements of these receivers.
    Maybe newer isn’t always better!
    :b
     
  2. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Actually I did the same between an 1803 and a 2802 a few weeks back and found the 1803 to sound a little thin and forward. But since the store didnt have an 1802 on floor and since I thought that this isn't a fair to compare the 2802 and the 1803, I dismissed it as unfair comparison. But to tell you the truth I didn't like the way the 1803 sounded. Thin and brittle.

    What were your finding as to the 1803's sound when compared to the 1802? Could you elaborate in what ways you found the 1802 to sound better than the 1803?
     
  3. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This thread irks me - then again, opinions are like - well, you know ... everyone has one. [​IMG]
    I previously owned a Denon 1802, sold it and purchased the 1803 because I needed the 2nd zone capability. Although I didn't have both receivers side-by-side to do a proper A/B test, I can tell you that I am very impressed by the 1803. I've used my 1803 for movies, 5 channel stereo listening (music) and DPL II (music) - everything sounds great!
    There are many, many variables to consider when doing the testing. Were all of the settings the same? - speakers set to "large" or "small?" Was the 1803 set to 80 Hz for the subwoofer crossover so it matched the 1802? Were the speaker settings for distances set the same with both receivers? -- You kind of see the pattern that I'm forming here, don't you?
    For anyone considering the purchase of a new Denon 1803, go for it. If you are upgrading from the 1802, just make you are upgrading for the right features and reasons. For me, the 2nd zone capability and 80/100/120 Hz crossover settings for the LFE determined that the 1803 was the right one for me.
     
  4. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In my case both the 2802 and the 1803 were in direct mode with the sub off because I dont like the sub amp interfering with my main amps during music listening (plus usually in these stores they have the sub cranked to max in order to sound dynamic). There were however certain glitches in my cursory testing:

    1) The levels were ear matched.
    2) The 2802 was a step above the 1803.
    3) The 2802 was broken-in while the 1803 was there only for a few days.

    Due to these reasons I dircarded my findings as in-appropriate and inconclusive. Someone needs to do a proper level matched listening evaluation of the two units in order to come to some conclusion.

    Wayne, I understand your frustration over threads like these. I agree that we should only be reporting these findings after an apples-to-apples comparison.
     
  5. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yogi,

    I'm not bothered by the 2802 vs. 1803 comparison. There could be many differences that make the 2802 better. With the logic of spending more money, then, yes, the 2802 should be a better receiver.

    I was bothered by the 1802 vs. 1803 comparison. Again, many variables are not known, so it is very inconclusive. This forum has about 600 users logged onto it each time I visit - so, it's highly used. People who post opinions better have some facts to back them up - otherwise, you have 600 people leaving here with the thought that the 1802 is a better receiver than the new 1803.

    The thread has about as much meaning as saying: "The Pontiac Sunfire is faster than the Chevrolet Cavalier." - With this statement, it means very little. Actually, the early 80s versions of these cars (the Sunbird and Cavalier) featured nearly the same engines and the same vehicle weight. So, a statement saying the Pontiac was faster can only boil down to the driver of the Pontiac having a better knowledge of the shift points (or something similar) to get a little more performance out of the car.
     
  6. Jeff Ery

    Jeff Ery Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Listened to both some time ago side-by-side at my brothers store and Both of us confirmed (an opinion mind you, no tech measurements) that we believed the 1803 sounded weaker, thin and compressed when compared to the 1802 . same source, same speakers , volume matched (as well as vol controls set at same NUMERIC # ON DISPLAY) ...I love Denon (own some of their stuff) but have certainly been examining them more closely of late.
     
  7. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I still am reluctant to believe that the 1802 sounds better than the 1803 but if this is infact true then it would be very sad to know that Denon too is jumping on the 'features over sound' bandwagon. Is it all about more features these days?
     
  8. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    UNFORTUNATELY , this is what happen in the audio world as more gear is bought "sound-unheard" ...I'm sure the people who did not do extensive listening comparisons are quite happy with whatever they purchased, sonic memory being what it is ....people shop at crutchfield like they're reading a menu..."yeah it's got that , and that , and that , and it's only three hundred dollars!"......I'm sorry give me the "stripped down" Honda over the "loaded" Yugo any day...
     
  9. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Matt you are a Denon dealer right? If it were not much trouble could you do a quick comparison between the two and verify these findings.
     
  10. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I already agree with the findings...one of the first things we do with new units is blind A/B's against their previous incarnation (while we still have the old model)as well as against every model in their price range through several brands of speakers one at a time...Iwon't vouche for the scientific accuracy but we vol match and keep the conditions remarkably similiar......
     
  11. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wow! I dont believe this[​IMG] Thats really sad. I wonder what the sound of the 3803 will be when compared to the 3802. In fact that makes me curious as to how the sound of the 3802 compared to its predecessor, the 3801?
     
  12. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i DON'T RECALL tHAT there was mucf a differance between 3801 and 3802, but rest assured the 3803 will be run thriugh it's paces in about 10 days(?) ...Intersting though the 4800 bested the 4802 in sound comparisons (in the OPINIONS of the salesmen who participated in the demo)....
     
  13. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  14. GregMcKi

    GregMcKi Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There you go, my conclusions sound vindicated. I wonder why there is a difference, and where the system components have changed. BTW I have decided on a Denon and was originally aiming for the 1803; 1802 now or 2802!
    :b
     
  15. GregMcKi

    GregMcKi Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  16. BrandonP

    BrandonP Auditioning

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What would be the benefits of buying the 1803 over the 1802?

    Assuming sound quality is the same which it looks like that is in question.

    6.1 and dual zone capability?

    Both of thoose I dont have a need for...is there any other reason I would want the newer model?

    Thanks!
     
  17. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Greg,
    I read through the posting at the "Spot" site as referenced in your link. At this point, everything seems inconclusive until this individual gets a replacement receiver from Denon. Again, this appears to be a single isolated case of one bad receiver. Hopefully, this isn't a new pattern of issues that's starting to develop with the Denon line. I wonder what an actual RMA rate would be for a receiver line? I know a bit about RMAs for computer equipment - for example, Abit had an RMA rate of nearly 10% for their BH6 motherboards a few years back, while something from Asus had a much lower rate - 2 or 3%.
    Additionally, to answer Brandon's questions, a thread was started over at AVS Forum where I added some comments about the 1803/883: AVS Discussion on Denon 1803/883
    For those that don't want to click on the link to visit the "other" site, here are my comments along with some follow-up comments from another user:
    Like you, I've found it to be "slim pickins" when it comes to reviews on this new receiver. However, I owned an 1802 for about 7 months and my new 1803 (actually AVR-883) arrived yesterday.
    Here are a few observations about the 1803:
    - Improved remote control: Finally, Denon provided a better remote control for this line of receiver. However, I have the MX-500 universal remote, so I only use the Denon remote for programming purposes.
    - 2nd zone ouputs: I'm not going to use the 6th channel for a 6th speaker in my viewing area. Instead, I'm going to use the 2nd zone to power a pair of speakers in a 2nd room. I haven't tried this feature out yet, since the receiver is only 24 hours old.
    - LFE Crossover points: 80, 100 and 120 Hz are now three now options for the 1803. The 1802 was fixed at a 80 Hz crossover point. I immediately set the 1803 to 100 Hz - and could instantly appreciate the extra lower frequencies that were sent to my subwoofer.
    - Pre-outs: The 1802 included 3 sets of pre-outs for the left front, center and right front channels. However, this feature has been removed from the 1803.
    - Front panel: I find that the 1803 is a little more intuitive in regards to the front panel controls when compared to the 1802.
    - User manual: The manual for the 1803 is a little better than the one for the 1802. However, since I'm still going through the manual, it's a little hard to say how much better it actually is.
    That's about all I can say at this point. I picked up my AVR-883 from an on-line Internet retailer for $338 - shipped via UPS Ground. I placed my order on Thursday afternoon; the receiver shipped on Thursday evening and I received it on Friday afternoon. The receiver was shipped from Harrisburg (sp?), Pennsylvania - which is only about 200 miles from where I live. Receiving it with such a quick delivery time was a surprise for me. However, I'm happy to have it for the weekend so I can "play" with this beast.
    This receiver has more than enough power to use in my 15' x 21' x 8' viewing area. I have a 15" Audiosource sub with my system. I had the volume set to about 20 points off of reference level and my house was shaking last evening when my daughter was watching Monsters, Inc.
    I think @ $338, purchasing this receiver is a "no-brainer." Take the extra cash and put it towards some other gear. However, if someone already has an 1802, but doesn't need Dolby EX, nor the 2nd room outputs, I don't see any need to upgrade. If someone is looking to upgrade from their 1802, it might be best to hold tight and see what the 2803 and 3803 provides.
    Additional comments from Joe_M:
    I have an 1802 that I was considering selling to upgrade to an 1803. The biggest advantages that were not covered by your review is the component switching and the additional optical connections.
     
  18. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    - 2nd zone ouputs: I'm not going to use the 6th channel for a 6th speaker in my viewing area. Instead, I'm going to use the 2nd zone to power a pair of speakers in a 2nd room. I haven't tried this feature out yet, since the receiver is only 24 hours old.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
    In the buisness we call this "towing a travel trailer with a Yugo"....it will work but far from ideaL, if you still retain the 1802 try using the zone 2 pre-outs from the 1803 to run to it so you don't strain the already overworked powersupply.....just a suggestion.
     
  19. Peter Johnson

    Peter Johnson Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Has anyone considered that maybe the dealer was just trying to move old stock?
    Sorry, someone had to be cynical [​IMG]
     
  20. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the tip. However, my old 1802 is already in another user's hands. But, I don't think I'll be driving both Zone 1 and Zone 2 at the same time, so I should be safe - and not overwork the power supply too hard. If that's the case, then there's always room for the 1804 - in another 12 months. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

Share This Page