Denon 1600 vs 2800 (1 Viewer)

[Brian Warren]

I'm planning on a 1600 but I was wondering what i would miss on a 2800. few posts down there was a nice debate re. 1600 vs 3800 but I was wondering what to think of the 2800 compared to the 1600
thanks
brian

 

[Andrew_Ballew]

2800= chroma bug, no DVD audio, PERHAPS a superior de-interlacing chipset, especially for film sources- Silicon Image.

1600= might have the flicker bug, has DVD-audio, arguably as good a de-interlacing chipset as the 2800, especially on video sources (DCDi)- Sage/Faroudja.

Thats about all I know- I cannot directly comment on the video quality of either player, as I have not seen either of them in action. (Well I have seen the 2800 in action for a moment on the showroom floor- the picture looked a bit soft to me, but I did not observe long enough to really form any opinion.)

Cheers

Andrew B.

 

[Daniel_Myles]

To confirm, the Denon 1600 does have the flicker bug. The Denon has a great audio section and good overall video quality. I however, could not live with the flicker and slightly soft picture the 1600 produced. The 1600 is in now way a bad choice though. I can't comment on the 2800's quality, as I haven't seen one in action.
Daniel

 

[Joe Cole]

Brian,

I own the 1600 and think it is a find product. The flicker bug is there, however, with my 16x9 TV set at around 35% for both contrast and brightness, it is not visible at all! Even with my 65" Mitt with no adjustment for the red push it is not noticeable at the lower and better settings.


To my eyes, the picture is very sharp and clear. Great colors with none of the worse chroma problem. And DVD-A is a bonus and good sounding.

It is cheap 'looking' but not 'cheap' performing.

I highly recommend it if you want DVD-A, if not wait for the new Philips with SACD. I would have but I have the top of line Sony SACD and wanted DVD-A player with out the chroma error.

If you buy it at Tweeter you can try it for 30 days.....

 

[KeithH]

Does anyone know how the DVD-2800 MkII compares to the original '2800? Does the new model have the chroma bug?

 

[Brian Warren]

thanks for the replies. I think I'll go with the 1600 to go with my new ws65869 mits and paradigms
Brian

 

[KeithH]

Brian, I hope the '1600 works out for you. I am intrigued by the good reviews it has received. If you grab one, do post your thoughts.

 

[jason celaya]

Does anyone else have anything to add to the 2800? I cant find much info on the new model

 

[Salvatore Restivo]

The DVD-2800 MkII is basically an upgrade of the de-interlacer from the Silicon Image 503 to the 504. As I understand it, the most significant change is a die-shrink. That means the de-interlacer is cheaper to produce and cooler to run.

I own an original DVD-2800 (June 2001, ESS5243) and a Toshiba 40H80 HD RPTV connected via StraightWire Ghostbuster component cables. It's well-known that the 2800 has the chroma upsampling bug, by virtue of the ESS decoder. I have never seen it manifest itself in my HT. I have been completely pleased with both the video and audio performance of this player.

I've never used the 1600 player. My two cents...

 

[jason celaya]

ijust bought a 2800 II and it looks sharper than my old panny rp -91. Odd being that it said to have a soft picture.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"Does anyone know how the DVD-2800 MkII compares to the original '2800? Does the new model have the chroma bug?"

Keith,

I have owned the original 2800, now have the MKII. The picture of the MKII in comparison is sharper than that of the original. Menu navigation seems even quicker, if that was possible, now it is instantaneous. The unit does run quite a bit cooler than the original, and it seems the layer change is even quicker...again, if this is even possible. Deinterlacing is stellar, no flicker bug, and plenty of controls to tweak the outgoing signal, both audio and video.

I do notice an improvement in redbook CD playback. Again, navigation of tracks is super quick, and disc loading is also faster than the original.

Yes, the MKII has the chroma bug...but it seems to be to less of a degree than the original with firmware upgrades. Testing was done with Toy Story using Woody's microphone and the checkerboard. I noticed the smearing in the microphone, very minor though....the reason I find it less of an issue than the original 2800....I don't see the bug in the checkerboard pattern.


Jeremy

 

[StaceyS]

Denon can provide you with a CD to remove the flicker. It is a one way fix, meaning you apply it, you can't set it back the way it was.

 

[jason celaya]

The chroma bug seems pretty bad on my new 2800 II. Has anyone heard of as fix yet like the 3800?

 

[Salvatore Restivo]

Jeff Talmadge is a Product Manager for Denon Electronics. He posted the following on the AVS Forum earlier today on this subject. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news for DVD-2800 owners.

Let's clear the confusion...The 2800MkII does use the same front-end as the 2800, which means the MPEG decoder(from ESS, no bit/MHz designation). The units differ after this part, the 2800 uses the SiL503 Progressive engine, the MkII uses the SiL504. The 2800 uses an Analog Devices 12-bit/54MHz digital to analog converter(DAC), while the MkII uses the 12-bit/108Mhz Analog DAC.
Since they share the same ESS MPEG decoder, and we had already doen as much as we could to rid that chip of the Bug, there is no firmware fix for either of these machines. The latest fix is only for the 3800 and 9000 models, since they share the same, newer ESS chip with DVD-Audio decoding.

The new DVD-3800 and DVD-9000 players use a next-generation MPEG decoder from ESS, not the same one as the DVD-2800, so those newer players no longer suffer from the chroma upsampling error.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

Jason,

Hve you calibrated your DVD player to your TV with a calibration disc?

If not, PM me and I can give you details if you're not sure how. While the 2800MK-II does have the chroma bug, I've seen it only in Toy Story in the above mentioned area. No other movie have I seen it. Of course, I could give a rat's ass as it doesn't bug me like many others. It only seems to present itself with that single shade of red on my TV...but I do have a Mitsubishi with an attentuator, this may be eliminating some of the error.

Which TV are you using?


Jeremy

 

[jason celaya]

Thanks Jeremy. Yes I have a calibrated Mits, w/red push attenuator, and it is only with that one shade. I love the player but am worried at the noise I'm seeing with alot of ref. DVDs. I am using the "darker" mode which I wonder is the problem. Or perhaps the picture is so accurate that it is unveiling the limitations of the format. Any thoughts?

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

So you're not just noticing the chroma issue? Are you talking about video noise? There is a ton of VN in DVDs these days and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.

Have you set your player to Auto? Instead of Film/Video? I have left my IRE at default and haven't noticed significant problems or video noise issues...in fact, my blacks look better than my original 2800.

I have not full on calibrated my unit to my TV yet, just some color patterns and audio levels, but it all seems well.


There definitely are some limitations to DVD in the transfer from film to digital. I'm very much looking forward to StarWars II, since it was shot digitally.


Jeremy

 

[jason celaya]

Jermey,

I'm using the "darker" setting (based on manuel recommendation when using componet) and everything else on default. Give it a try and let me know what you think (does it add noise?)

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

Oops,

Guess I should read the manual. I'm doing some landscaping right now and a few errands. I'll check it out tonight and get back to you.



Jeremy