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Definitive Speaker help

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Michael De Costa, Sep 5, 2001.

  1. Michael De Costa

    Michael De Costa Stunt Coordinator

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    2 nights ago, I purchased a pair of 2006TL's, a CLR2002, and a pair of BPX2's. I have yet to open the boxes because I am moving in a few days and did not want to repack them. As they sit there on the floor, I can't help but second guess my purchase. Should I have gone with the 2004's or 2002's? Should I have purchased the CLR2300 instead of the CLR2002? What about the BXP2's in the rear? I am powering these speakers by a Denon 3802. Without spending more than an additional $1,200, is there anything that I should upgrade making it a significant improvement. Any advice from current Definitive owners would be helpful. Thanks
     
  2. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    How big is your room? The great thing about Definitive is that they have a signature sound and similar voicing. The 2006TL's should work very well. The clr2300 is the matching center...but the clr2002 will work nicely as well. If you have a really big room then you should consider something like the 2000TL's. Otherwise save your money now to add an external sub down the line.
     
  3. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Mike: you are suffering from classic "buyers remorse". Just relax.
    The 2006 towers are the latest towers from DefTech and reflect more speaker for your money. A review in Stereophile Guide to Home Theater praised them highly.
    When you open them up, notice the build quality. Look at the end caps, look at the binding posts. Do they look cheap, flimsy?
    They wont.
    The 2002 center is one of most detailed speakers I could find after months of searching. People have even traded DOWN from the 2300 to the 2002 after having one for a few weeks.
    Get some speaker wire, some of those nice dual-banana plugs from Radio Shack and take at least an hour to slowly, carefully setup your new speakers.
    Then, when you first hear them sing, it should bring a smile to your face.
    But...after a day or two, you will AGAIN start to doubt them. Should you have bought the other towers? Maby the Paradigm sounded better? Maby you should run back to the store and listen again?
    These doubts are all very normal.
    You did your homework. You asked for advice from lots of people. You've read the reviews (I hope) and found that DefTech has always been well reguarded.
    It will take a week or three for both the speakers and your ears to "break in". During that time you should play some inspirational music, and alternate with some of your favorite Action DVD's.
    After the opening chapter of Toy Story 2, Saving Private Ryan or the many scenes in Aliens, you will not have doubts.
    If still in doubt, call your dealer and ask if he has a 30-day return policy. This is very common as some speakers sound very different at home than in the show room.
     
  4. Steve G

    Steve G Agent

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    Mike ,you won't know until you open them up and play them at home. I've had my Def Techs for almost 7 years. I have the DR7's which are bookshelf L/R and a C1jr. center. I have listened to and tried many other speakers but have upgraded everything else. I can't seem to part with them. Good Luck and enjoy. I think you'll be very happy with them.
    Steve
     
  5. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Mike- The following is my opinion, and I will not be held accountable for any addition to your buyer's remorse! [​IMG]
    The 2006's have two 4 1/2" bass/mid range drivers for $599 each.
    I would have recommended the BP-30's with 4 x 6.5" drivers, but no built in sub, for $699 each. *Then* go for a high quality external sub a la SVS ($500 or so), Velodyne (HGS for $1000 or a little more), Vandersteen ($1000 or a little more), etc.
    In my opinion, you would get much better mid-range imaging and performance with the BP-30s.
    But, is your main use music, movies, a mixture? If it's mostly movies, you're probably OK with the 2006's. But if it's mostly music, I would think that you might want to think about switching.
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  6. Michael De Costa

    Michael De Costa Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes, it's true I am suffering from a case of buyers remorse. I am also suffering from Home Theateritis. I figure, while the wallet is open, make sure I am 100% satisfied with my choice.
    As for my Living Room (AKA my new Theater) it's 14x25. Not too big, but then not too small either. I am setting this system up for 99% of DVD movies. I just keep thinking that when I can spend a couple of hundred dollars to upgrade now, if I change my mind in the future it will cost most a hell of a lot more.
    Before my purchase, I did spend a great amount of time doing research, and I have read many great reviews on my current set up, but as most Home Theater enthusiasts, it's hard to ever be satisfied. There always seems to be that one piece you wish you had to enhance your system. Starting from scratch again, gave me the opportunity to spend a lot more $ on my set up than I would normally not spend.
    Being that the Denon 3802 can handle 7.1, I am definitely considering purchasing the additional speakers to comply. This brings me to another question, what additional Definitive speakers should I purchase to obtain 7.1? another set of BXP2's for the mids? Put the BXP2's in he mid and add another set of 2006TL's? Then what to add for the rear center channels? Help!
     
  7. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Michael, a setup of 2006TL's in the front and rear would be sweet! For now you should probably just worry about 5.1...but bp2x's would probably suffice for the additional 2 channels. But still if you have the space to put towers in the rear, you will really love that setup! Down the road get a quality external sub and almost certainly you will have no buyers remorse, trust me. If anything you might want to consider separates down the road...though you may not find a pressing need to do so.
     
  8. Michael De Costa

    Michael De Costa Stunt Coordinator

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    Bob, I thought about putting 2 2006TL's for rears, but the sales people at 6th Ave discouraged me from doing so. They had stated that the sound provided by the BPX2's is better suited for surround sound rear speakers. I read a review on Definitives website that was from Home Theater Magazine. They were using the setup I currently have now for the review but then also changed the BPX2's in the rear for the 2006TL towers. They never went into whether or not the 2006TL's were suited for rear surround, just that the added bass shook the room. Granted I wouldn't mind the extra bass, but would rather have the best sounding surround sound available. If anyone uses 4 2006TL's for rears please let me know what you think. Thanks
     
  9. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Mike- A couple things:
    1) The models numbers are a little different, but the idea is the same. I had BP-20's in front, with BP-2's in back. (BP-2 was Def Tech's early back surround speaker.) I then moved the BP-20's to the back and got BP-30's for the front. (My wife got the BP-2's for fronts!) So, now I have 4 towers all around (I'll talk about the centers in a minute). What I found, is that having the BP-2's in the back (up high) did *not* sound as good as with towers all around. The sound field is much more seemless now. Before, I always felt *under* the soundstage; now, I am *in* it.
    There have been other threads on HTF talking about towers vs "little ones" in the back. Almost without fail, the consensus is, there is no good reason *not* to get towers all around. If you can afford it, and if you have the space. Remember, the ideal siuation, is having identical speakers everywhere.
    2) Think about 7.1 for a second. All it is, is 5.1 with 2 center rear speakers added. When I went from 5.1, to a THX EX/DTS-ES set up, I only added 1 center rear speaker (didn't have the room for 2). But, I mirror imaged my setup front to back. In other words, BP-30's up front, and BP-20's in the back. (The BP-20's preceded the BP-30's in Def Tech's lineage.) A CLR 2000 in front, and a CLR 1000B in the back. (The 2000 and 1000B have exactly the same drivers, just that the "box" they are held in is engineered a little differently.) I believe that even whether you add 1 or 2 center rear speakers, that they should *not* be dipoles. I believe that it/they should be of the same design as your front center channel.
    3) If you think that you are even the slightest bit interested in switching from the 2006's, I would look at the 2004's with 2 5.25" midrange/woofer drivers.
    Look at it this way:
    2006: 2 x 4.5", r= 2.25", total midrange area = 31.8 sq inches
    2004: 2 x 5.25", r= 2.625", total midrange area = 43.3 sq inches
    BP-30: 4 x 6.5", r= 3.25", total midrange area = 132.7 sq inches
    It's not quite as simple as "4x area gets you 4x better sound," but in this particular case with Def Tech speakers, very simplistically, more area does get you better sound.
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  10. Michael De Costa

    Michael De Costa Stunt Coordinator

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    Given my current dilemma, I decided to write to Definitive for their "expert" advice. This is the reply I was sent:
    "I wouldn't think that upgrading to the BP2006TLs as your surrounds would be a wise use of your money. Meaning, the BP2006TLs will sound a bit better, but is this small improvement worth roughly $700.00? Honestly, the
    rear speakers in a surround system are not asked to play much information. In fact, only about 15% of all the sound that's reproduced will be played by the surround speakers.)
    If you were inclined to upgrade your system, I'd feel the $700.00 would be better spent in upgrading your front sound stage. Specifically, you could upgrade to the BP2004TLs and CLR2500 (and keep the BP2Xs as your surrounds) for roughly $700.00. (This would produce a larger improvement in your
    system than upgrading your surrounds......)
    From this, I learned that they have excellent customer service, replying to my email in less than 1 hour. I hope they are as quick to respond if any other issues arise. I would hope to still get a few more opinions from forum members and their current Definitive set ups.
    Anyone out there with 2004TL's, CLR2002, and BPX2's? How does this sound?
     
  11. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Michael you are right about their customer service...many many people have praised it.
    Putting towers in the rear (particularly those that are matched with your fronts) should bring your HT to a new level. I have bp2x's in the rear (I am forced to wall mount my rears) with 2000TL/clr2000 in the front, and the setup sounds great but it would sound truly amazing if I had towers in the rear as well.
    For a setup 99 percent HT, IMHO (4) bp2006TL's + center would outperform (2) bp2004TL's + center + (2) bp2x's. If you are willing to pay a little extra for the former setup, I say go for it.
     
  12. Keith Carlascio

    Keith Carlascio Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi all,
    I just purchased a DefTech setup also. I went with BP30 upfrong, already have SVS 20's X 2, a 2500 for center, 2006s for side and BPX for rears. While I have not been able to listen to yet as I am still waiting for all my fronts to come. I can't wait. I will be running them off a Denon 5800. Anyways I will fill you all after they come in.
    Michael did you check with Woodbridge Stereo in W. Caldwell. They made me a better deal than 6th Ave and the sales staff spent over an 1.5 hours with me just trying different setups.
    Keith
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  13. Michael De Costa

    Michael De Costa Stunt Coordinator

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    What really sucks is typing a long message and somehow I lost it right at the end as I was trying to spell check! [​IMG] To make my long story short I returned the 2006TL's and got the 2002TL's in stead. My configuration now consists of the CLR2002 for center, 2002TL's as mains, and BPX2's as rears. I just hope my new Denon 3802 can handle all of it!
    Bob, I fully agree that 4 2006TL's would provide for an excellent set up, but I now have even a bigger picture. I did learn to love the 2006TL's. I actually plan to repurchase the 2006TL's as mids in the very near future. But what does that leave for rear center? Another CLR2002?
    Keith I hope for my sake that the Woodbridge store you mentioned would not be that much cheaper than my cost.
    Thanks for the advice but it would have to be a substantial difference to warrant all the hassle of the returns at this point.
     
  14. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Michael that's actually not a bad plan...you might want to wire the 2002TL's "full range" in the bass. Enjoy!
     
  15. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    FWIW: When I auditioned DefTech and made my decision, I selected the 2002 towers. Paid for the set, took home the CLR 2002 center, was told the 2002 towers would arrive in a few days.
    A few days later, I found out that the 2002's were out of stock at the wherehouse. A fresh set would have to come from the Mfg. It would take another week.
    A week later, I found out that the 2002's were discontinued from the Mfg in favor of the redesigned 2002tl's. My dealer offered to sell me these slightly-more-expensive towers at the 2002 price if I would wait the 2-3 weeks for them to start production.
    A few weeks later, I found out that demand was so high for DefTech, that they were opening a new manufacturing plant. The manufacturer of the new 2002tl's was slated for the new plant, due to open in a month or so.
    About three months after putting down my money, my dealer (highly embarassed) offered to sell me 2000tl's at a reduced price. A check with the Mfg found these to be in plentiful supply and a set was ordered.
    A week later the freight truck arrived at my dealers .. no 2000tl's. A paperwork check showed that they were loaded onto the truck back east, but they must have been off-loaded by accident en-route. (At 130 lbs each, these speakers cannot be sent FedEx with tracking numbers or by air. Private trucking companies have to be used.)
    A call to DefTech got me to the vice-president of the company. (I think his name was "Jim"). He listened to the story, and asked if he could look into things. He called me back a few hours later, apologized for the problems, and told me another set was on the way.
    Three days later, my speakers arrived at the dealers and I went and picked them up.
    I later learned that Jim hired a different company to make a single delivery: 2 speakers straight from the plant to my dealer in California. No side trips, no other deliveries, several times the normal shipment costs.
    So what did we learn from this tale of woe:
    - Bob has the patience of a saint. (Not really. I spent years reading magazines and web sites, months doing auditions. Since this was not an impulse buy, waiting a few weeks to get what I wanted didnt seem so bad considering the long-term picture).
    - DefTech is a good company. (They did right by me when there were problems).
    - DefTech is a bad company for changing things and having delays to ramp up. (No, this stuff happens. Even the highly-praised SVS has delays. There were delays getting the CS series, the prototype "Ultra" units were working months before they were ready to produce production units. Often you have to take time to get quality products out.)
    - My dealer was an idiot. (No, they did an honest job and kept me informed when they learned new information. All the problems were out of their control.)
    - Anticipation is a part of this hobby. (Yes [​IMG] )
     
  16. Randy_M

    Randy_M Supporting Actor

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    Just a side note; my fronts are BP8B's and rears are BP1X's.
    Since I believe the center is the most important for movies, I moved up to a CLR2002 for my center. This is the most incredible speaker I've ever heard...it's nice to know that when I upgrade my mains and rears, my center will still be State of the Art (IMHO)...
    Cheers
     
  17. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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  18. Keith Carlascio

    Keith Carlascio Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi All,
    Well finally got all the speakers. All I can say is I am very happy with what I got. BP30s in Front, 2500 Center, 2006TL Side and BPXs in the rears, and Dual SCS 20s for subs. I through in Titan AE last night for a few minutes and WOW. It sounded really nice. I am going to spend the weekend re-wiring and calibrating.
    Anyways I am a happy camper till the the next upgrade bug bites.
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  19. Michael Botvinick

    Michael Botvinick Stunt Coordinator

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    I have had the Def Tech 2000 series for a long time and Love them. If you change anything just get the best center channel for the money especially if you are 99% watching DVDs. You may not be happy with the bass response but you can always add a sub later.
    These speakers are very senistive and do not require a lot of power to make them sound great.
    My best friend got the 2002 series and I think they sound better than mine. Sometimes size doesn't matter.
    -Michael
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  20. Keir H

    Keir H Second Unit

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    Hey All, nice to see fellow Def Tech owners in discussion. I have BP-30's, CLR 2000, BP-6 for rears...here's my question though, I don't have but about 2 ft or so of space behind my couch to the wall for my rears. Right now there are a little off to the back corners of the couch on either side. With this setup they cannot fully reflect off the rear walls right? I get sound back there but it somehow is more restricted than it should be my guess. Think I should place them directly to the sides of my couch facing towards the listeners?? Keith, how did you place your 2006's?? Also, can these (BP-6b) be placed on stands?? thanks guys.
     

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