Def Techs.. Paradigm?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Rick Radford, Aug 11, 2001.

  1. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    I've been shopping/researching HT systems for several months now.. and am in analysis paralysis... trying to get it all perfect my first time out. I'm finding that hitting a home run on my first swing is not likely!
    I'm balking at spending $6k on a receiver and 5.1 speaker setup... but can if it's really worth the $$.
    I've strongly considered the Onkyo 989 ($3000 list) and Paradigm Studio 100/cc/20 (~$3050 list) for a small room with HW floors.. about 1100 cu ft. There's a possibility that I might move the HT setup to a larger carpeted room of about 2000 cu ft at a later time.
    I'm not convinced (yet) I need to spend that much to get decent sound. The LFE will likely be provided by a SVS 20-39pc or CS with Samson amp... so that's about $800 towards the 5.1 setup. If I can keep the speakers plus sub at a max of $3k, I can stay closer to $5k max for the audio part of my HT system. But if I could spend $1500-2000 for a really nice sounding speaker system.. that'd be even better!
    I haven't listened to DT's yet... and am thinking I should. Maybe the BP30/CLR2000/BPX ($2650 list). Or how about BP10b x4 (for mains and rears) and the CLR2000 ($2650 list). Or maybe BP8b x4/CLR2002 ($2150 list).
    I'm not sure what to expect of the BP sound. I might try to compare it to, say, Paradigm Studio 40/cc/20 ($2050) or Studio 40x4/cc ($2300). I'd have to add in the cost of stands for the 40/20 Paradigms though.
    What kind of discount is reasonable to expect on DT gear? Any?
    From what I've read (after a search on Def Tech), the DT speakers require a lot of work to get them properly positioned for best sound. Are the BPs much more critical than direct radiating speakers?
    Any thoughts on the DT combos I listed above? Rears will have one in a corner and another in a 4 ft wide opening to another room. Mains have a 39" wide space between an armoire and the side walls. (tough room).
    Thanks for any thoughts you can share to help me move out of my paralysis mode! [​IMG]
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    --RR
     
  2. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    The Mirage speakers sound interesting.. and the OM9 along with the cc and rears are in my max price ballpark. But I can't find any local dealers for Mirage.
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    --RR
    [Edited last by Rick Radford on August 11, 2001 at 08:11 AM]
     
  3. Ryan Peddle

    Ryan Peddle Second Unit

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    Well, your best bet is to see if the dealer will lone out a set for the night. Even if it's just the receiver and main speakers. you can get them positioned in you home and tell what the audible differences are in your listening area.
    Paradigm are HTF favorites, many htf members have them. Anyone from rowdy 20 something guys like me to serious audio enthusiasts like Trevor Schell.
    From a personal standpoint, I guarantee you that you won't be disappointed with Paradigm. But make sure you listen to other so that you can find YOUR perfect speaker.
    ------------------
    Oops, I dropped my eardrums.
    Could you pick them up for me?
     
  4. PomingF

    PomingF Second Unit

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    Rick, look under Samson's post on Def Tech's to see if there's anything/anyone there be of any help. The systems you listed so far all worth auditioning. Lots depend on your personal taste, listening environment, etc. but don't discount any future upgrade plans.
    PF
     
  5. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Rick Def Tech speakers are quite amazing when partnered with well "matching" equipment (I don't know much about the onkyo, but they seem to mate well with yamaha rx-v1, b&k avr307, high end Marantz, and denon 5800...don't be locked into your choice of receiver because it is better to find the best match with receiver/speaker if this is possible).
    Generally I would recommend the 2000TL's but I think the 30's + external sub(s) would be a fantastic combo.
    The speakers really aren't that hard to set up...you should give about 1-3 feet for the rear drivers to fire, and about 5-8 feet in between the speakers (for music particularly...for movies it won't matter if you give them more space), and for the powered towers make sure that nothing is blocking the side firing subs (keep they away from the side walls). After this is done, you should experiment with toe in angle. You also don't want to keep the speakers next to an rptv on the same plane.
    Make sure to use some decent equipment (I use monster cable and sony cd player) and make sure that all the wiring is clean and uncoiled...if you experience slightly more output from one speaker over another then you should recheck interconnects/power cords.
    Once you break them in (a lot) you should love them. To get them to sound truly amazing (with music in particular), some subtle repositioning is advised (experiment and find what works best for you)...an inch here or there can make a difference (especially with toe in). In the long run you should be very very happy!
     
  6. Steve_D

    Steve_D Second Unit

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    I would seriously consider Studio 40 x 3 / Studio 20. Oh yeah..that's what I have [​IMG] (well the rear 20's are coming, right now rear Mini's)
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    http://www.sdiver.org
     
  7. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Well.. I went in search of the DT BP30 today. And found that (from the DT website) my local dealer is NOW Audio/Video. And they don't carry the BP30... just the BP8 and 10 (in the unpowered versions).
    The dealer I visited today just had the 8 set up alongside some 2006TLs. I couldn't tell any difference between them... and guess the powered sub musta been turned down on the 2006.
    I also listened to some Paradigm Studio 40s. But as they were in different B&Ms... it was tough to compare.
    NOW A/V will not allow borrowing of speakers for a home trial.. you have to buy them and you get 7 days to decide.
    OTOH, the Paradigm dealer encouraged me to go ahead and get a receiver and then he'd loan me speakers to see what works best in my room.
    At NOW, they had a Boston speaker, the 2 DTs and a Klipsch RC3 (iirc) that I listened to. Of those, I liked the sound of the DTs the best. The Klipsch seemed a bit harsh. Could that be the horn tweeter I heard? Or am I just imagining it?
    I wish they would allow a home trial without having to buy them.
    At the Paradigm dealer, I almost listened to some B&W 804s.. but decided I better not. [​IMG]
    Buying speakers is tougher than I thought it'd be. [​IMG] And I don't see any practical way to evaluate receiver/speaker combos.
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    --RR
     
  8. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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  9. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Bob,
    I'd like to try them. Just wish a local dealer carried the BP30. I'm just not excited about having to buy speakers with the 7 day return option... especially ones I haven't been able to hear in the store. [​IMG]
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    --RR
     
  10. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
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    Rick:
    I personally have the BP 20s, CLR 1000 and BPX setup. The 20s and CLR 1000 have been updated to the 30s and the 2001 but basically they are the same. I have been using these speakers for 20 years now and they still sound the same as when I first picked them up.
    The combo of the BP 30s, CLR 2001 and BPX for your surrounds with a SV powered sub would sound great with any decent receiver or pre-amp/amp combo. I can also recommend that you check out the Outlaw Audio line of receivers and amps. For the money they are hard to beat.
    My local Def Tech dealer will gave me a break when I bought the whole set up at once. It doesn't sound like your local Def Tech dealer is that great.
    I am fortunate enough to have two in my area. Maybe you have another dealer that you could locate that will have some of the 30s in store so you can listen to them.
    Good luck with your purchase whatever you decide.
    Parker
     
  11. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Parker,
    Of the 8 dealers the DT site lists for my state, NOW is 4 of them. Not that they are a bad dealer.. they just don't carry the BP30.. nor the BP6, iirc. And since I'm likely going to want to try multiple combos, this buy/return/buy/return turns me off... and discourages trying a more distant dealer. [​IMG]
    A possible combo for me might be the BP30/CLR2002/BP6 (as I'm not sure how the BPX would work in my room.. see below).
    w/r/t center channel, the 2001 is not listed on their website... but CLR2000 and CLR2002 models are. Of those, the 2002 will fit in the space over my current TV, the 2000 won't (space is 7.75"). So the 2000 would have to go on top of the armoire... 63" high.
    Will either of those CC match equally with any of the unpowered towers?
    Rears: as I'm only looking for a 5.1 setup, and given the location for the rears (one in a corner and one in a 4' wide opening.. either side of the couch), I thought directs (and maybe BPs).. angled in about 45 degrees would work best.
    I've heard that DT are good for bass but have no mids... but I'm sure all you DT fans will deny that. [​IMG] Is there any basis for that statement?
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    --RR
    [Edited last by Rick Radford on August 12, 2001 at 08:01 AM]
     
  12. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    Take a listen to the Paradigm Active 20 and/or the Active 40's.
    You can easily compare those to the B&W 804's for much, much less money, and since they have their own built in amplifiers optimized for the speaker, you will save money trying to find a very high end amp to perfectly match the Paradigms.
    -- John
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  13. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    John,
    I asked my Paradigm dealer about the actives yesterday... but they don't carry them. AFAIK, he's the only local P dealer for me.
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    --RR
     
  14. PomingF

    PomingF Second Unit

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    Rick:
    45 degree is way too much toe-in for the bipolar towers, in fact for most fronts IMO. I had mine toed-in b/w 15-20 degree and recently added the spikes to the front for a bit of backward tilt. Unfortunately they're stuck both front/back & sideways not having much room to move around.
    As for midrange, I believe they are about neutral on the Def Tech's unlike some folks' high frequency experience to where the Def Tech's are considered 'bright'. Those who think the Def Tech's are missing in midrange must have compared them to speakers like B&W which is notorious for their midrange performance. Btw, don't go near that Nautilus 804 your dealer has. Yup, their bigger bro' beat out the Def Tech's in my system. [​IMG]
    PF
    [Edited last by PomingF on August 12, 2001 at 10:00 AM]
     
  15. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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