Def Tech vs. Paradigm, MHO

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by John_VI, Mar 1, 2002.

  1. John_VI

    John_VI Second Unit

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    Took the advice of some folks here and went to listen to some Paradigm speakers yesterday. I went to the 6th Avenue Electronics store in Paramus, NJ where - to my surprise - they also carry Def Tech and several other brands including NHT. 6th Ave stores generally have some very nice auditioning rooms/spaces, and this one has about 10. I had heard the Def Tech 2006's before, so I was really there to listen to the Paradigms. I used chapter 29 from the Matrix DVD (the lobby scene) as my reference.

    I first listened to setup using the Paradigm Studio 60 mains, Studio-CC center, and ADP-370 dipole surrounds. It did not use a subwoofer. I must say that the sound was very good, bordering on excellent. I say that, though, in the absence of any real history in listening to or comparing various audio systems. But to me, it sounded very good. Details like bullets hitting the marble walls were crisp and well located.

    Next, I listened to the Def Tech setup, using the BP-2006TL mains, CLR-2300 center and BP2X surrounds. I could immediately sense that the sound from the Def Tech setup was what I could call "richer". Sounds that were supposed to be crisp were exactly that, but comparing it to the Paradigms, I would have to say that the Paradigms sounded a bit harsh. I think it may have been the inclusion of the powered subs in both the 2006's and the 2300. Sounds on the Def Tech's maintained their richness when travelling across the screen. Oh, and now I know what you folks mean when you say that the soundstage "expands". It seemed like much of the action was going on in the next room, or even outside the building! And with the addition of a separate s/w, I can imaging that it would be a killer system.

    Whatever it was, my ears liked the Def Tech's much better. And since I'll be using them for movies 99% of the time, I think I've found my system. Now I just need to get the scratch to buy the damned things!

    And I've got my eye on an SVS 20-39PCi when it comes time to add a sub to the mix.
     
  2. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    Important thing is you liked the sound. DefTechs in general sound great for movies. They do a really good job of creating atmosphere.
     
  3. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    I think you made the right choice for movies (I love my Def Tech towers). But for the benefit of others, you made a few mistakes in your auditions:
    - Music is a better test for speakers and will reveal flaws/issues much faster than a DVD soundtrack.
    - It was a un-fair comparison to listen to the DefTech towers with the built-in subs, and the Paradigm speakers without a sub. Kudos to you for knowing this and mentally compensating, but shame on you for using a bass-heavy chapter for the audition. Of course the DefTechs are going to sound better.
    There is currently a large debate going on in another thread about powered-towers vs monitor style speakers with an external sub for movies. You stepped into the exact middle of this issue with those 2 setups. You might want to read/participate in the other thread.
    If you get a chance, go back and listen to the same systems, but dial down the subs on the DefTech towers, or have the sales person define them as "SMALL" speakers. This would give you a more fair comparison.
    (But I think you will still choose the DefTechs [​IMG]).
    Suggestion: Go back and turn off all but the center speakers. Then compare the CLR2002 center with the 2300 - I have been told the older 2002 center is superior. It was the reason I bought DefTech a few years ago.
    Good Luck.
     
  4. John_VI

    John_VI Second Unit

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    Thanks for the advice, Bob. Gee, another reason to back and listen to more speakers!! What a good problem to have!

    Regarding the 2300 vs. the 2002, I would like to hear the difference as well. But I think I'd also throw the 2500 into the mix, which is essentially a 2002 with a built-in powered s/w.

    I did listen to a few other clips as well, and I found that the 2300 performed beautifully on dialog and other "center" sounds.
     
  5. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Def Tech makes great speakers! With proper setup and attention to associated equipment, you should find them to be great with movies and music.

    Bob, I'm not sure if I agree with you there that it was not a fair comparison. He was comparing loudspeaker to loudspeaker. What would be another fair comparison would be Paradigms + external sub vs. Def Techs + external sub. By the way, if you set the Def Tech powered towers to "small" and dial down the built-in subs, without using an extenal sub, it sounds much much worse IMHO. Apparently you are losing information below the crossover. Also, you are losing the stereo sub effect. I would not recommend doing this.
     
  6. Phil Wyeth

    Phil Wyeth Extra

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    Two words for you:
    BIPOLAR SOUND
    I have been sold on my Def Tech HT set up now for years, due to the wide, enveloping sound stage you recieve with this technology.[​IMG]
     
  7. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Message deleted by owner - member removed
     
  8. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    John, I'm not sure I follow you...what is it about my statement that you disagree with?
     
  9. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

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    LOL
     
  10. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Bob,

    I'm going to be painfully and brutally honest here. If the moderators censor my post because it's not perfectly polite, so be it.

    Your recent post shows you don't have a clue about sound reproduction. Based on this post alone the value people should place on entertaining your preferences is severely compromised.

    Let me lay this out for you:

    Channel A has frequency content down to 20Hz.

    Channel B has frequency content down to 20Hz.

    Now modify channel A+B so that they are only delivered frequencies above 80Hz by defining them as "Small" in the setup of your receiver (or preamp/processor). While the frequencies below 80Hz could be redirected to a subwoofer the system isn't configured to do so. In this system frequencies below the crossover have effectively been thrown away.

    From this terrible setup, you've concluded that the Def Techs sound better full range than they do bandwidth limited, even though a correct implementation hasn't been made.

    It truly boggles the mind.

    Post away Bob, I can't wait to hear the reply.

    Regards,
     
  11. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    All I said was that, if you are not using an external subwoofer, don't compare by setting the speaker to "small" and turning down the volume knobs on each speaker, because you will be losing information below the crossover. I still don't get it...what exactly about my statement are you disagreeing with?
     
  12. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Bob,

    If you truly don't understand what's going on, and why this was yet another crappy test on your part, any further discussion will be fruitless.

    This is the extent of my reply, as anything else I say would likely be in violation of the rules of this forum.

    Regards,
     
  13. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    John, what I don't understand is why you insist on attacking me on a personal level everywhere I go. No one deserves to be attacked on a personal level.
     
  14. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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    I think the point in the < 80 Hz removal is to better compare midrange and highs between speakers. It is possible that with the higher output of the Def Techs down low, the Paradigms may have been perceived as harsher because they aren't competing with the higher output down low. Granted, I wouldn't be surprised if John_VI still found the Paradigms to be "harsher" even on this more level playing field, but at least such a setup removes one potentially skewing variable from the equation. Of course, I don't dismiss the perceived value of additional bass output from mains in various situations, and apparently John_VI was also positively influenced by the soundstage of the Def Techs.

    My $.02

    Doug
     
  15. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Bob was right about the idea of removal of < 80Hz, but in order to do this, both systems should be hooked up to an external subwoofer, with all speakers set to "small". With the Def Tech setup, John VI can also try setting the front speakers to "large", the rear speakers to "small", and use an external sub for LFE only. Try out both ways, and go with what works best for you. Good luck!
     
  16. Richard Burzynski

    Richard Burzynski Second Unit

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    John:

    The best (and maybe only) advice you should take into consideration when choosing your speaker brand is the following:

    Audition as may brands within your budget that you can, and then go with what sounds good to YOU. Speakers affect your system's "sound" more than any other component - so make sure you like their sound. Period.

    Sidenote:

    I've auditioned DefTech's on several occasions and have always been impressed with overall sound. The one thing I think I can't get used to is bipolar sound - it's very different than an in-your-face type direct radiator (something I've lived with for 5 years now). I am an NHT fan and owner, but I definitely respect the DefTech sound.

    Good Luck.

    Rich B.
     
  17. Chuck C

    Chuck C Cinematographer

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    No more John Kotches? Wow, I wonder what he said?
     
  18. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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    Location:
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    Greg
     
  19. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Greg, you are absolutely correct. For 99% HT, I would be shocked if bipolars didn't do the trick at home [​IMG]
     
  20. John_VI

    John_VI Second Unit

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    Jeez, I sure hope I wasn't the catalyst of somebody flying off the handle and getting banned.

    Thanks again for the wonderful advice, folks. I am constantly amazed (in my several days of HTF membership) at how willing folks here are to share their outlook, opinions, expertise and preferences. It helps a newbie like me a lot.

    To further explain a thing or two from my original post, I certainly did not mean to imply that the Paradigms sounded bad, or....really.....that they even sounded harsh. That's just the best comparative description I could come up with. I would imagine that my perception is based on the difference between directly radiated sound and bipolar sound. Bipolar sounded warmer and richer, more natural to me.

    And yes, I specifically asked that external subs NOT be used in either set-up so that I could get a comparison of the towers/surrounds/center only for each manufacturer. With their powered subs disabled and only their 4.5" drivers working, the 2006's would probably sound pretty poor compared to the fully-driven Studio 60's. I think next time I will specifically ask for the same external s/w to be used with each test.

    Thanks again, folks!!
     

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