Deep Space Nine: For the Fans

Ockeghem

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^^^

Wow, that is a good deal! I don't want to mention how much I spent on that particular series. Let's just say that my sets came from England, France, and Germany (seriously).
 

Sam Favate

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DS9 is the best of the franchise IMO. The writing was consistently excellent and the serialized nature of the show and it's later seasons built upon what came before in TOS and TNG to great effect. After a year and a half since the success of JJ Abrams' movie, why is there no talk of reunion films for DS9 or TNG? Both of them deserve a proper ending. (DS9's left one important thing unresolved, and TNG needs a better conclusion that Nemesis.)
 
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Jim_C

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DS9 spoiled all other versions of ST for me. After watching a version of ST that didn't wrap up in the last 5 minutes of episode I just couldn't go back. DS9 is head and shoulders above the rest, IMO. The last three seasons were amazing.
 

Sam Favate

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Originally Posted by Jim_C
DS9 spoiled all other versions of ST for me. After watching a version of ST that didn't wrap up in the last 5 minutes of episode I just couldn't go back. DS9 is head and shoulders above the rest, IMO. The last three seasons were amazing.
I'd hold up seasons 4 and 5 as the best in the franchise, along with TNG season 3 and TOS season 1.
 

mattCR

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I love Season 7. This is one of the few series that really had a hell of a run in it's final season. Just watched "Under the Paper Moon" this morning, it's amazing how many actors could anchor this series, it's one of the first treks were you could have an episode minus the entire bridge crew for the most part, and you cared a lot about all the characters involved, because you had come to know them over the series. That's great writing.
 

mattCR

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The resurgence of the drive for DS9 blurays in the other forum made me think of this. I watched "The Ship" this morning (Season 5, Episode 2). It's amazing how DS9 managed to turn age old Star Trek tropes and completely toss them on their ear. In other Treks, "redshirts" would die and people would move on in fairly quick order. TNG dealt with this once; but here, you have an episode where both sides of the battle lose people; and there is palpable remorse - and because the death is somewhat protracted, there is a huge debate about how just the end of life decisions are when no medical care is right around the corner.

It's the kind of episode that DS9 did so well.. "I stare at the same five casualties over and over" There is an open debate over what you'd be willing to give your life for; whether or not a life lost in a good cause is still just.

DS9 had more consistency then any trek series I can think of; but the real unique value of it is that watching it again, it really holds up.
 

mattCR

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DS9 is like a summer ritual I suppose. Back in Season 2 at the moment.. I found myself watching "House of Quark" tonight. Such great stuff, the "A" plot about Quark trying to trump up his exploits in a bar brawl and getting mixed up in a Klingon marriage, and a "B" storyline of Keiko O'Brien finding that her school would close because there weren't children on the station any longer .. and Miles trying to find a way to make her happy.

It's a great episode, lots of fun.. and then you realize that the crew you think of as the "A" cast (Sisko, Odo, Kira, Jadzia, even O'Brien Julian etc.) are only tangentially involved, and the story gives a real look into the life of others on the station - it gives Quark more to his backstory and it fleshes out Keiko's side of a marriage of movement in Star Fleet.

The recent thread about how bad Voyager sucks made me mention that I thought the "B" characters on DS9 had a stronger storyline than any "A" character on Voyager.. and it's these kind of episodes that really prove that.
 

Josh Steinberg

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It’ll be interesting to see if a DS9 anything is even possible after “Picard” airs - there’s the potential for that series to update the status quo in a way that makes a return to DS9 as it used to be impossible. It seems like Starfleet is worse for the wear in the time that’s passed.
 

Sam Favate

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It’ll be interesting to see if a DS9 anything is even possible after “Picard” airs - there’s the potential for that series to update the status quo in a way that makes a return to DS9 as it used to be impossible. It seems like Starfleet is worse for the wear in the time that’s passed.
If Picard is successful (and all signs are that it will be), I think we will see more series popping up with familiar faces, including some from Deep Space Nine, which just had a successful documentary this year that created a lot of buzz.
 

Josh Steinberg

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Absolutely. I didn’t mean that it was unlikely that we could revisit some of those characters. What I’m thinking is more likely though is that Starfleet has changed and DS9 isn’t the same place it once was, so that you couldn’t simply do a DS9 Season 8 in this new context, just as Picard is not TNG Season 8.
 

joshEH

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Jesus, Auberjonois and Fontana this past week, and I just find out today that Aron Eisenberg passed away back in September too. It really does come in threes.

Star Trek Online is going to be really hard the next time I revisit it. DS9 was by far my favorite iteration of Trek on TV, and Auberjonois and Eisenberg both came back to reprise their characters in voice-acted parts for the game in recent years. If you play as a Jem'Hadar character, it's Auberjonois, in character, who congratulates you every time you level up.
 

Sam Favate

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I recently restarted DS9, for the first time in 12 or 13 years, my wife and I are watching from the beginning. I had wished to be watching it in HD and on blu-ray by now, but we're still enjoying it.

We're midway through the second season, and already I think this is the strongest of the post-TOS shows right out of the gate. The first season has many strong episodes (Emissary, Past Prologue, Captive Pursuit, The Nagus, Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets) and the show keeps building on the themes that will define the show -- the cultures of post-occupation Bajor and of the Cardassians too. DS9 was criticized for not having a starship and cruelly dismissed as "boldly sitting," but it is exactly because they remained in one place that we're able to get a richer development of the people and cultures on and around the station.

The second season also started off strong, with its three-part episode (first in Trek history) and other important episodes like Rules of Acquisition (first time we hear about the Dominion), Necessary Evil (great film noir look back at life on the station under Cardassian rule), and Cardassians (which really highlighted the differences between the warring cultures).

The rest of the season will likely take most of the rest of this year, but I'm glad to be doing this again. It's probably my favorite of all the Star Treks.
 

Josh Dial

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Interesting, Sam. I started a re-watch of DS9 a while back (I'm on season 6) and for me it has the weakest start in the franchise. There are a handful of standout episodes, sure ("Necessary Evil" is indeed great), but overall the writing/dialogue is quite weak and the stories are largely uninteresting.

I think "Move Along Home" is the worst episode of the series, and one of the worst of the franchise (in fine company with TNG's "Code of Honor" and "Shades of Gray").

Don't get me started on season one's "Progress" (with Jake and Nog upcycling Yamok sauce) which was so unbelievably stupid it was insulting.

I think my main problem with DS9 through the first five and a half seasons is its almost religious devotion to stereotypical A and B (and sometimes C!) plots. I know this was just how TV was done in the 90s (and is still done on network TV), but all too often the B and C plots on DS9 were unconnected with a given episode's central theme(s) and largely didn't advance characterization. Contrast this with TNG where most of the B plots related to the central A plot's theme (see, for example, "Brothers" and "Family"--which were coincidentally back-to-back episodes).

Once the show gets truly serialized in season 5/6 it starts rocking. Until then it's rocky.

(For what it's worth my re-watch is being done in concert with listening to the excellent podcast "The Greatest Generation". If you are a Star Trek fan and like podcasts I highly recommend it. The hosts started with TNG and have proceeded through to DS9. They have a side project for Discovery and Picard. They have *never* missed a single week of content.)
 

Sam Favate

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Interesting, Sam. I started a re-watch of DS9 a while back (I'm on season 6) and for me it has the weakest start in the franchise. There are a handful of standout episodes, sure ("Necessary Evil" is indeed great), but overall the writing/dialogue is quite weak and the stories are largely uninteresting.

I think "Move Along Home" is the worst episode of the series, and one of the worst of the franchise (in fine company with TNG's "Code of Honor" and "Shades of Gray").
No argument on Move Along Home. Bottom of the Trek barrel.

I think the writing is good in the first/second year. They had Peter Allan Fields doing a lot of great work (even a expository episode like "Dax" from season 1 he made interesting). And in general, I found that even when they were following the A-B(-C) plots, they were advancing the overall story of the station and Bajor. You can't say that for the A-Bs of TNG and Voyager.

TNG had some great episodes in its first two years, but really became the show we love in the 3rd. Voyager, IMO, never had good writing. I think the writers failed a good cast and a good premise over and over. I rewatched Voyager a few years and found the first several years to be a real slog. It has been my least favorite show by a country mile since it first aired.

I will indeed check out the podcast; sounds like a good one.
 

Sam Favate

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Tonight I will finish season 2, which had a number of really great episodes. We're only two seasons into the show and the Bajor-Cardassia conflict is really fleshed out well. The political maneuverings on Bajor are really interesting, with Winn and Bareil out-doing each other. The show has excellent writing throughout but the best seems to be saved for Quark. He's funny and insightful and has some of the best dialogue. The episode where he sees the Cardiassian woman whom he loved might be the best Quark episode in the series. They need to get Armin Shimmerman in Picard somehow. The show would be better for it.
 
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Adam Lenhardt

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So on the basis of the fervent advocacy from y'all, I've started watching this despite not thinking much of it when it originally aired.

I was impressed with the two-part pilot, which covered a lot of ground and some pretty big swings in a relatively short amount of time.

The couple episodes I've watched since then were... fine.

One thing that confused me: If Sisko is the commanding officer of an entire starbase, why is he only a commander? In the original series, the starbases were all run by commodores, one step up from a captain. In the Kelvin timeline, Starbase Yorktown was run by a vice admiral, three steps up from a captain. The only reason I could think of was so that Picard would have a superior rank in the series premiere -- creating an interesting tension between Sisko and the man he blamed for his wife's death.
 

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One thing that confused me: If Sisko is the commanding officer of an entire starbase, why is he only a commander? In the original series, the starbases were all run by commodores, one step up from a captain. In the Kelvin timeline, Starbase Yorktown was run by a vice admiral, three steps up from a captain. The only reason I could think of was so that Picard would have a superior rank in the series premiere -- creating an interesting tension between Sisko and the man he blamed for his wife's death.
And even then, being a Commander technically didn't make Sisko a "Captain" in the eyes of the Kirk-vs.-Picard fans, so the series had to bring in the Defiant. For him to be Captain of.
 

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