3D Dear Ron and Bob: The Future of 3-D on Blu-ray...?

RJ992

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Exactly- but how do we DO that? I thought that just buying as many 3D Blu-Rays as I could was a clear enough message, but I guess I need to do more. Electronics companies are pretty bad in terms of consumer relations, as the people who actually make decisions seem impossible to reach.

That's another thing, and a BIG thing that the industry doesn't quite seem to get. The only reason I even HAVE a 3D TV right now is through a happy accident-

But what should we do, just let high-quality video die and follow "the average consumer"? I simply refuse to do that. If the "big" movies continue to be released in 3D in theaters but are only released in 2D at home, I won't buy them. If a repeat of the 1950s happens and movies end up going back to 2D altogether, that will give me much less reason to even bother with a lot of current ones and I'll just watch older stuff at home. I spend a great deal of my income on movie-related stuff, but having 3D taken away could potentially put an end to that and lead me to finding other interests- is that what the industry wants me to do?
Yes, that is exactly what they want you to do...as long as one of those interests is 4K without 3D. Remember, the industry (ALL arenas) have been actively trying to HIDE the existence of 3D. While every ad for a theatrical releases proclaims "See it in IMAX 3D and RealD 3D!", when the same movie hits home video, 3D is NEVER mentioned or indicated. It is just :"Available on BD, DVD, and Digital." Would it cost them anything to add 2 letters...3D? Nope...they refuse to even acknowledge 3D releases. This is also true of tv manufacturers,home video depts, trade ads, etc. etc. Think about it...have you seen ANY acknowledgement of 3D (outside of A/V forums) in the past 2 years? Heck, even this very site has eliminated 3D from the subject. It now reads "Blu-ray and UHD" instead of Blu-Ray, 3D, UHD" Sure, there's a tiny 3D tag you can select once you enter the forum...but an average person browsing will find no indication of 3D here.

The result of all these things results in the average casual peruser not even knowing the home 3D even exists! In fact, I've even come across two people who have 3D-capapble sets and DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT! Salesman didn't tell them and, in one case, 3D was not even indicated on the box! Plenty of other logos but no indication of 3D. Also, when I speak to others, many who own 3D sets have no idea 3D BDs are available. As I said, the industry has been going out of its way to HIDE it on all fronts. I can understand not promoting 3D but to actively strive not to even acknowledge its existence?.Dropping 3D has NOTHING to do with consumers (despite what the industry might claim) and more to do with forcing you to accept 4K. With a 3D option being omitted from the 4K combo packs, many would choose to purchase the 3D release over 4K.(when in an either/or situation). By eliminating 3D from the equation, people who want one or the other would have no choice but to buy the 4K disc. THAT is what they want you to do. (Sure, the logical choice is to have combos with 3D, 4K, and UHD...but as history has shown, the industry is not filled with the sharpest tacks in the box and has usually been strongly anti-consumer..

While one should vote with dollars, the sales figures are being ignored when it comes to 3D. Apparently some titles selling 20% - 33% of combined BD/DVD sales (and that's without any advertising/promotion) is meaningless to them.

What to do? You asked how to speak up...contacting home video depts is one way. You can probably find find contact e-mails on studio sites (At Disney, Susan McClain is the person in charge of home video). Let TV mfgrs know your dissatisfaction as well. And while I don't know how effective petitions are, here is one for HBO 3D:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-all-3d-movies-to-hbos-on-demand

Contact them directly as well: http://www.hbo.com/about/contact-us.html
 
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WillG

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But that's just another thing the industry should keep in mind as to why 3D hasn't been as hot as they would've liked it to. DROPPING 3D capability from TVs will NOT result in more ways to see 3D movies. Keeping it around eventually WILL.
That's what I am still having trouble with. How does it hurt to keep including 3D capability on displays? While I get you don't want to put effort into things that don't pay off significantly, how difficult it is to have 3D display capability? I could see that it might have been a decent expense when it was new, but like everything else after a few years I have to imagine the added cost has to be virtually negligible at this point. Please, if I'm wrong someone enlighten me. Also, how much different is it than other "premium" features that have been around for ages that no one uses (picture in picture for example). Again how difficult can 3D support for displays be when many BD players and PS4 which weren't 3D ready out of the box were made capable with simple firmware updates.

And another reason for the decline of 3D that I'm not sure have been mentioned yet has to be the "I hate the glasses" or "3D is just a gimmick and a distraction" crowd (nothing personal to the people on this forum that fall into this camp). These people's opinions always seem to carry much more weight with the bean counters it seems.
 
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Jonathan Perregaux

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I found 3-D incredibly distracting when my new PlayStation 4 couldn't play any of my 3-D Blu-Rays, yet my 3 could. Thankfully rectified, but didn't Sony drop CD playback support too?

Way to sock it to people who amass collections of physical media. What are we now, lepers?
 

Jesse Skeen

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Dropping 3D has NOTHING to do with consumers (despite what the industry might claim) and more to do with forcing you to accept 4K.
That's not going to happen with me- to me 2D 4K is the same thing as if they were to put out higher-resolution audio but have it be only matrixed 2-channel. Why can't they have a 4K image that's ALSO in 3D? While my next TV will be 4K (and at least 2K 3D, which will at least have the advantage of having better passive 3D than the older sets) and I'll likely buy a player for 4K discs, I don't expect to be as enthusiastic about 4K and I certainly will NOT buy ANY 2D copy of a 3D movie, regardless of its resolution. And I'm a person who loves great picture quality- if I'm not all that excited about 4K, how do you think the "average consumers" feel about it, those who are happy with cable TV and still watch new movies on standard DVD (and might even be watching them on VHS if the industry hadn't dropped that)? I'm betting that 4K discs, especially in 2D, aren't going to be flying off the shelves either and the industry will have to give those several years to catch on.

In fact, I've even come across two people who have 3D-capapble sets and DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT! Salesman didn't tell them and, in one case, 3D was not even indicated on the box! Plenty of other logos but no indication of 3D.
That's absolutely pathetic. I heard that manufacturers' first response to 3D not taking off so big was to not hype it as much and just consider it a "standard feature"- if ALL new TVs had 3D capability then that'd be OK, but we're having this conversation because some TVs are now DROPPING it and that's NOT OK. Again, many consumers are incredibly clueless- most TVs come set to default picture settings that are so WRONG it's not even funny, and people will happily keep them set like that and watch them that way- with bleeding color, cranked-up contrast and "motion enhancement" turned on that makes filmed material look like videotape! Speaking of that, it likely costs a bit of money to include THAT "feature", but nobody's calling for them to drop that! (I'd much prefer if it at least didn't default to being on when you set the TV up for the first time.)

As awful as Best Buy is, I have to at least give them credit for usually having 3D Blu-Rays on endcaps and on sale for good prices. They should still have at least one TV in the store showing 3D material, but at least they acknowledge that it exists.
 

WillG

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That's not going to happen with me- to me 2D 4K is the same thing as if they were to put out higher-resolution audio but have it be only matrixed 2-channel. Why can't they have a 4K image that's ALSO in 3D? While my next TV will be 4K (and at least 2K 3D, which will at least have the advantage of having better passive 3D than the older sets) and I'll likely buy a player for 4K discs, I don't expect to be as enthusiastic about 4K and I certainly will NOT buy ANY 2D copy of a 3D movie, regardless of its resolution. And I'm a person who loves great picture quality- if I'm not all that excited about 4K, how do you think the "average consumers" feel about it, those who are happy with cable TV and still watch new movies on standard DVD (and might even be watching them on VHS if the industry hadn't dropped that)? I'm betting that 4K discs, especially in 2D, aren't going to be flying off the shelves either and the industry will have to give those several years to catch on.



That's absolutely pathetic. I heard that manufacturers' first response to 3D not taking off so big was to not hype it as much and just consider it a "standard feature"- if ALL new TVs had 3D capability then that'd be OK, but we're having this conversation because some TVs are now DROPPING it and that's NOT OK. Again, many consumers are incredibly clueless- most TVs come set to default picture settings that are so WRONG it's not even funny, and people will happily keep them set like that and watch them that way- with bleeding color, cranked-up contrast and "motion enhancement" turned on that makes filmed material look like videotape! Speaking of that, it likely costs a bit of money to include THAT "feature", but nobody's calling for them to drop that! (I'd much prefer if it at least didn't default to being on when you set the TV up for the first time.)

As awful as Best Buy is, I have to at least give them credit for usually having 3D Blu-Rays on endcaps and on sale for good prices. They should still have at least one TV in the store showing 3D material, but at least they acknowledge that it exists.
This whole 4K thing to me seems to be the industry putting a lot of eggs in a basket of dubious strength. I know that that in a year or two 4K displays will be the only ones available on the market but the UHD push baffles me (although I guess it's refreshing that for once the industry is on the same page). But if Blu Ray only did a percentage of what DVD did why are the studios pushing UHD that will only do a percentage of a percentage at best. Especially when as perception would have it, physical media is hemorrhaging market share to streaming. Yet 3D is a problem. And sadly as more manufacturers jump ship on 3D, the 3D BD releases will dry up rapidly.

Also what planet is the Best Buy located on where there are good 3D end caps. I have seen a few at mine from time to time, but they're usually z-level titles (IMAX Space Junk and Under the Sea, in that vein)
 

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I have no interest in going to 4K for home theater at this time. I'm fine with a 65" screen at 1080p, watched at a normal distance. A 4K screen of that size and at that distance would yield no appreciable improvement. Even if I went crazy and went to a 90" screen at that distance, I'd still do fine with a 2K screen.

The only thing for which I can see using a 4K TV will be for glasses-free 3D. Once they iron the bugs out of it (which is still a few years away), I believe that COULD restart home 3D in a big way. Most people who tell me they don't want to watch 3D cite the glasses as their main reason for disliking it. Glasses-free 3D could really turn that around. But it's not ready yet. Until we get there, I'm fine to stay with the Panasonic VT30. Picked it up 4 1/2 years ago and regularly have it calibrated. Should work fine for the next 10-15 years, if not longer.
 
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Jesse Skeen

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3D has ALWAYS required glasses, I don't see what the big complaint about it is now. If they can make a glasses-free system work then great, but that certainly doesn't stop me from watching 3D- and yes, I wear regular glasses so I have to use my active 3D glasses over those and it's no problem at all. If I get a passive system later then clip-ons would be good to have.

One of my friends said even before home 3D came out that he didn't think it would do well because it requires you to actually WATCH and PAY ATTENTION to the movie. I've heard a few people complain that they can't text or do other crap with their phones while watching 3D, but you're supposed to give EVERYTHING your undivided attention anyways! The only time 3D becomes an obstacle to me is if I'm eating, that's when I'll purposely pick something in 2D to watch rather than 3D.
 

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3D has ALWAYS required glasses, I don't see what the big complaint about it is now. If they can make a glasses-free system work then great, but that certainly doesn't stop me from watching 3D- and yes, I wear regular glasses so I have to use my active 3D glasses over those and it's no problem at all. If I get a passive system later then clip-ons would be good to have.

One of my friends said even before home 3D came out that he didn't think it would do well because it requires you to actually WATCH and PAY ATTENTION to the movie. I've heard a few people complain that they can't text or do other crap with their phones while watching 3D, but you're supposed to give EVERYTHING your undivided attention anyways! The only time 3D becomes an obstacle to me is if I'm eating, that's when I'll purposely pick something in 2D to watch rather than 3D.
Agreed. And as I alluded to above, I'm sure that attitude is a huge factor, maybe the biggest now that I think about it, for the slow death of the format. Not to get all P.C. But isn't that attitude insulting to people who have to wear glasses all the time? :) I bet George Costanza would take offense.

Now I see a lot of speculation that 3D will come back when the glasses free displays are ready. But could it ever be the same? How would you be able to replicate any kind of "pop out" effect?
 

RJ992

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Now I see a lot of speculation that 3D will come back when the glasses free displays are ready. But could it ever be the same? How would you be able to replicate any kind of "pop out" effect?
You can't (at least going by one demo I saw last year). Without 3D, I consider UHD to be a downgrade. Would you buy a receiver that included DTS but not Dolby Digital? I, for one, won't be buying any display that is not 3D-capable. I don't want to spend my money on a manufacturer that doesn't want it.
 

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One of my friends said even before home 3D came out that he didn't think it would do well because it requires you to actually WATCH and PAY ATTENTION to the movie. I've heard a few people complain that they can't text or do other crap with their phones while watching 3D, but you're supposed to give EVERYTHING your undivided attention anyways! The only time 3D becomes an obstacle to me is if I'm eating, that's when I'll purposely pick something in 2D to watch rather than 3D.
Doesn't that speak volumes a about the new generation of movie watches. You have to pay attention (gasp!) to them. I understand having the boob tube on and not always paying attention to it, but if I've gone to the trouble of loading up a blu ray, I plan on watching the movie.
 
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Widerman

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Yes, that is exactly what they want you to do...as long as one of those interests is 4K without 3D. Remember, the industry (ALL arenas) have been actively trying to HIDE the existence of 3D. While every ad for a theatrical releases proclaims "See it in IMAX 3D and RealD 3D!", when the same movie hits home video, 3D is NEVER mentioned or indicated. It is just :"Available on BD, DVD, and Digital." Would it cost them anything to add 2 letters...3D? Nope...they refuse to even acknowledge 3D releases. This is also true of tv manufacturers,home video depts, trade ads, etc. etc. Think about it...have you seen ANY acknowledgement of 3D (outside of A/V forums) in the past 2 years? Heck, even this very site has eliminated 3D from the subject. It now reads "Blu-ray and UHD" instead of Blu-Ray, 3D, UHD" Sure, there's a tiny 3D tag you can select once you enter the forum...but an average person browsing will find no indication of 3D here.

The result of all these things results in the average casual peruser not even knowing the home 3D even exists! In fact, I've even come across two people who have 3D-capapble sets and DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT! Salesman didn't tell them and, in one case, 3D was not even indicated on the box! Plenty of other logos but no indication of 3D. Also, when I speak to others, many who own 3D sets have no idea 3D BDs are available. As I said, the industry has been going out of its way to HIDE it on all fronts. I can understand not promoting 3D but to actively strive not to even acknowledge its existence?.Dropping 3D has NOTHING to do with consumers (despite what the industry might claim) and more to do with forcing you to accept 4K. With a 3D option being omitted from the 4K combo packs, many would choose to purchase the 3D release over 4K.(when in an either/or situation). By eliminating 3D from the equation, people who want one or the other would have no choice but to buy the 4K disc. THAT is what they want you to do. (Sure, the logical choice is to have combos with 3D, 4K, and UHD...but as history has shown, the industry is not filled with the sharpest tacks in the box and has usually been strongly anti-consumer..

While one should vote with dollars, the sales figures are being ignored when it comes to 3D. Apparently some titles selling 20% - 33% of combined BD/DVD sales (and that's without any advertising/promotion) is meaningless to them.

What to do? You asked how to speak up...contacting home video depts is one way. You can probably find find contact e-mails on studio sites (At Disney, Susan McClain is the person in charge of home video). Let TV mfgrs know your dissatisfaction as well. And while I don't know how effective petitions are, here is one for HBO 3D:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-all-3d-movies-to-hbos-on-demand

Contact them directly as well: http://www.hbo.com/about/contact-us.html
Don't buy TV that's not 3D.
 

RJ992

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Thanks, but unless the date was a misprint, the article is two years old today February 22, 2014..
But it does show how the demand is there...but the industry doesn't care. Not that I didn't know, but the industry's dubious "reasons" for dropping 3D have nothing to do with demand or consumer interest.
 

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Do you really think that the decline in 3D is due to some international conspiracy among electronics manufacturers and not consumer apathy? If there was really money to be made, wouldn't at least some of these companies be chasing it?
 
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Stephen_J_H

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If nothing else, the current attitude of CE manufacturers towards 3D has convinced me that my future in home theatre lies with projection, whether with an active DLP/LCoS/LCoQ projector, or buying 2 projectors and doing a homebrew passive setup. Flat panels have abandoned the 3D enthusiasts, it seems.
 
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phillyrobt

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I will say there are small pockets of hope. For example FYE recently combined their blu-ray and dvd sections. Visiting their store in center City Pa, they've put back the 3d blu-ray section...
 

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That is hopeful, Robert. Not just for 3-D enthusiasts.

I complain every time I go into my two local FYE B&Ms about the mixing of the DVD & Blu formats. I keep asking why they don't mix their CD and LP sections together. Makes about as much sense.
 
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WillG

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I will say there are small pockets of hope. For example FYE recently combined their blu-ray and dvd sections. Visiting their store in center City Pa, they've put back the 3d blu-ray section...
To play devils advocate here, I tend to believe that had more to do with customer confusion than to "feature" 3D Blu Ray on its own. And given sits FYE, they probably got questions on why a single movie BD was selling for like $50.
 
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