dealing with too much bass......

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by John Roger, Jun 10, 2004.

  1. John Roger

    John Roger Stunt Coordinator

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    I have just brought jbl 3 way speakers for the fronts.It's got an 8 inch woofer and delivers real tight bass.But when i turn on the sub the bass becomes too much and boomy.I have a small room.Is the sub really required in this case?
    sub - 8 inch sony 100W
     
  2. JohnSmith

    JohnSmith Supporting Actor

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    What have you set the main speakers crossover to? What's the subwoofer crossover set to? Have you disabled/maxxed the subwoofer's own crossover knob?

    Have you calibrated your system & sub with a sound pressure meter? How loud is the test tone from the main speakers and also the subwoofer?
     
  3. John Roger

    John Roger Stunt Coordinator

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    There are only two options

    1) set the fronts to "large" to play them at full range.In this case the fronts also work like a subwoofer playing all other bass including LFE.

    2)Set them to "small".When i select "small" the crossover is preset to 150Hz.I don't know how this can be changed.


    *If i set the sub on it plays all bass regradless of the settings and LFE.This means lot of overlapping bass.
    When i select "large" and sub on it is like i have two subs.

    Reciever Sony HT-sl5.
     
  4. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    Calibrating your system will assure that all speakers are outputting the same levels. It requires an SPL meter (Radio Shack is the one most use) and at least the test tones of your recevier, preferably a calibration disk. This, along with bass management (i.e. setting your other speakers to 'small') will prevent any one speaker from outputting too much volume, thus balancing the system and eliminating your problem. There is much information about calibration and speaker settings in the Primer thread, located in the "Beginners" section.
     
  5. John Roger

    John Roger Stunt Coordinator

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    Since the crossover is preset at 150Hz the mains will missout a good amount of bass it can handle(they are rated down to 40Hz).I like the jbl tight bass.So any other options or should i get a better amp?
     
  6. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    John,

    First, calibrate your system. Then try it with the speakers set to 'large' and the speakers set to 'small' (you may have to recalibrate after changing the setting). See which one you like best. That is a very high crossover, so make sure you turn the crossover on your sub all the way up or off before you test. The main thing is to get the system calibrated, the "booming" is more than likely due to the sub output being too high.
     
  7. Rob Kramer

    Rob Kramer Second Unit

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    Yes, I better amp would be ideal. 150hz xover is criminal. Is it a leftover from a HTIB?

    Does your existing amp have an additional set of speaker outputs. You could send the signal to your sub (non lfe), and then let the sub cross it over. Of course, you would be taxing your amp's power somewhat.
     
  8. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

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    Does that sub have high pass and low pass speaker inputs? If so what you could do is set your receiver to turn off the sub and keep your mains as large. Then run the front left and right speaker cables to the sub's speaker inputs and then another set of speaker cables from its outputs to the front left and right speaker. You will now be able to use the sub's crossover adjustment to dial in a more suitable crossover point and volume so its a more seemless blend.
     
  9. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    are you certain the LFE goes to the front speakers when set to LARGE and with a SUB?

    rob and andrew have a good idea, if your sub can crossover and pass the receiver's speaker-level output.

    otherwise, i'm going to be real honest and suggest you drop the sub altogether, run your new speakers as LARGE and the receiver setup with NO SUB.

    have you tried "modding" the sub, as some were suggesting, yet, btw?
     
  10. Ralph B

    Ralph B Supporting Actor

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    its called a cheap sub, sorry. but the truth.
     
  11. John Roger

    John Roger Stunt Coordinator

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    The sub and receiver were part of an HTIB.The sub has only one input.

    I am pretty sure the LFE goes to the "large" speakers also i have a 5.1 test DVD and can hear the LFE even when the sub is disconected.

    The whole problem i think is due to the amp internal crossover sending any bass to all possible speakers.
     
  12. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    john, which test disc do you have? on many of these calibration discs, some of the the LFE calibration tracks are not purely LFE, by design. AVIA is a good example (there is a pure LFE track on AVIA, but you have to know which one to use).

    and although yours may be different, receivers do not redirect the LFE to the main speakers unless you set them up with NO SUB or use some other special receiver setting that will allow it.

    that said, can you set your receiver up with NO SUB, and have you tried it with NO SUB? i have a feeling you'll like it better without the sub, now that you have new fronts.
     
  13. John Roger

    John Roger Stunt Coordinator

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    Yep i've calibrated them.The disc is some DVD lens cleaner.The one with some space bike racing clip in the end.

    On the disc when each channel plays the bass comes from the sub as well as the "large" speakers.

    When LFE plays bass comes from the "large" speakers too.

    Better than no sub i think what would be the better is the main speakers to take care of it's own bass(i don't want them playing subwoofer).And let the sub take over the center,surrounds and LFE bass.But i don't know how to set this.

    I have the manual here.Can someone help me out.

    http://www.docs.sony.com/release/STRSL7.PDF
     
  14. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    as described on page 14 and 15 of the manual, to do what you're saying, set:

    fronts = LARGE
    center = SMALL
    surrounds = SMALL
    subwoofer = S.W. YES

    in this configuration, the LFE should NOT be redirected to your front speakers. depending upon exactly how your receiver manages bass, you MAY get some of the redirected bass from the center and surrounds in your fronts, but not LFE. PLEASE note what i said in my post, above, about LFE tracks. unless you KNOW that a track is "pure" LFE, don't assume that, because if it's not it can be VERY misleading.

    again, i encourage you to disconnect the sub altogether, as you hinted at in your initial post, and set the receiver up as follows:

    fronts = LARGE
    center = SMALL
    surrounds = SMALL
    subwoofer = S.W. NO

    just give this a try, see what you think.

    btw, under what circumstance do you find there's "too much bass"? movies? 2-channel music? both?

    how is(are) your player(s) connected to your receiver?
     
  15. John Roger

    John Roger Stunt Coordinator

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    The sub always plays the front bass even if they are set to "large".So both are playing the same sounds.This is causing the too much bass and boominess.

    On two channel music i just turn the sub off and it's fine.But in movie i want the effects of LFE and the sub is best in handling the lowest bass.But it is loaded with the front channel bass as well.

    Maybe i should get another amp.

    Player is connected via digital coax.
     
  16. Chuck Bogie

    Chuck Bogie Second Unit

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    One thing - if you've got a "volume" knob on your sub, try turning it down a bit... You should only "notice" the sub if you turn it off, in which point you'll notice the absence...
     
  17. John Roger

    John Roger Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a bass level knob.I've kept it at half.Also there is gain control on amp.

    Anyway for now i am better off keeping the sub volume and level low and it's sounding better.With the level down I maybe missing out the true feel of LFE.I will get a better amp soon.
     
  18. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    what are you using as an "LFE reference track"?

    i keep saying, it is not uncommon for these calibration discs' tracks to contain a MIXTURE of LFE + non-LFE, so that when you play it back, you WILL hear it in both the sub and the front (or other) speakers as well, especially when set to LARGE.

    what is your "LFE MIX LEVEL" (see pg.22 in manual)?

    btw, if you set this setting to "OFF" and play back your calibration disc's LFE track and you can hear something from any of your speakers, including the sub, then the track you're using to check this most likely isn't "pure" LFE.
     
  19. John Roger

    John Roger Stunt Coordinator

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    Scott,
    I've checked it.I have disconnected the sub with sub ON and can still hear LFE playing through the fronts.When I turn the LFE mix down to OFF then i hear no sound.This means this is pure LFE.I cannot hear the LFE when i use stereo input.LFE tracks are normally ignored in 2ch downmix.So this is indeed pure LFE.

    This could be the main reason why the whole things sounds bad when the sub is used with the fronts "large".

    The crossover is designed such that the front speakers work like an extra subwoofer when "large" is used, sharing all redirected bass including LFE.I think this is a bad design.Maybe most HTIBs are so.

    Unfortunately 150Hz is too much to choose "small".I will miss most of the punch.

    What a crap amp!
     
  20. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    what do you hear if you leave the sub connected and turn lfe mix to off?

    although i feel more comfortable using that logic to be exclusive ("it's NOT lfe") than inclusive ("must be lfe"), you may, indeed, be correct. perhaps that receiver mismanages lfe. you may want to try resetting the processor.

    also, what are you calibrating with? your disc? the receiver's internal tones? what is your disc, btw? you may want to invest in avia or something similar, as avia does have some tracks that are known to be purely lfe.

    are you certain you're calibrating correctly? because if the receiver IS managing bass "properly", and you do calibrate correctly, the sound should "all come out in the wash" and be correct. getting this all right may hinge upon fiddling with the separate sw level and lfe level settings, especially since you've added considerably larger front speakers than the original htib was designed around and for.

    and i still think you'll find the sound more pleasing if you run it with NO sub and let the jbls handle your lfe. that sub seems to be causing you quite a bit of headache. sometimes you just gotta "cut bait".
     

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