1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Dead or Alive 6

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Bryan^H, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. Message #21 of 59 Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
    Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    You won't find anything close to this on DOA 6




    So, What was lost?

    Mainly, much less skin shown, and much less "bounce", or "jiggle" for the female characters. Which has been part of the "experience" and appeal of these games for twenty years. Great graphics. Outrageously sexy outfits. Over the top sexy characters first and foremost. That is what pushed units. The sexier the series became the more popular it was in sales.

    And once again for the third time explaining this to you, this "decision" to nerf the series in accordance to the social climate is stupid. And I'm sure it isn't what most die hard fans want (hence the sales numbers). When Playboy magazine stopped featuring nudity, that decision failed miserably. Likewise with this.

    This is a fictitious universe of characters, and places. Harmless.
    It is just a video game. Video games are art forms, like cinematic features. Would there be an outcry if movies rated "R" were forced to stop featuring nudity because of backlash from the media/critics?
     
  2. Message #22 of 59 Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
    Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    9,217
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    If it's a harmless, fictitious universe of characters, then why are people SO UPSET that there's slightly less skin and boob bounce?

    The representation of people in fictional universes is important. Sure, that doesn't mean that ALL art needs to represent things exactly the same, but it's still important to have an equal spread of experiences. For example, you may like Dead or Alive because it objectifies women, but do you also play games that sexually objectify men (by which I mean, present them as expressly sexual objects for the gamer/viewers pleasure, as opposed to just wearing very revealing outfits?)

    There HAS been backlash when movies are censored to appease critics or expand their appeal. When a movie like Deadpool comes out (comic movie with immature humor and a fully-earned R-rating), it's considered a unique and brave achievement because the industry is so focused on getting as many people to experience the movie as possible.

    Honestly, the "sexiest" games in the DoA series are NOT the best sellers. I would guess that there's just too much competition for people's time now, whether in the form of better fighting games, better ways to see naked people, or just other things that people can do with their time. And the reviews for DoA6 didn't seem to subtract points because the game has too little skin now.

    Maybe...just maybe...the sales are relatively unrelated to the "controversy" of censorship, and more related to the nickel-and-dime microtransactions mixed with the really poor single-player experience?

    EDIT: Soul Calibur 6, which is a very successful game, sold fewer copies in it's launch week in Japan (about 24k) than DoA6 did (about 26k). We can debate the reasons why this happened, what effect reviews had, what effect the esports scene has (FYI - DoA6 was designed to be an esports game because that is the business model that multiplayer games focus on now), etc. It's also way too early to call DoA6 a failure after...what...2 weeks on the market?
     
  3. Message #23 of 59 Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
    Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    I never said that I, or any other fan likes DOA because it sexually objectifies women. I said DOA is a Japanese game that their culture does not find offensive. Changed for North American climate of attitudes toward women. If there were a game about men of the same type from Team Ninja that had an amazing fighting engine like DOA, it would be a riot. Bring it on. Day one for me.
    Also the Dead or Alive games have always been fantastic, addictive fighting games. The game you describe is more along the lines of Rumble Roses, or Primal Image. Do you hear people begging for a new "Rumble Roses" game? I didn't think so.



    When things are changed or altered for any reason to please people because of a current trend in social attitudes, I'm going against it because it isn't right. Once again a huge step backward. No one is forcing the people that despise it to play it.

    I know where you are going with your "sexual objectifying" talk.
    I can tell you from the pit of my soul that playing a fighting game with girls in skimpy clothing does not make fans of the series perverts, no more than beating someone to death with your bare fists in Red Dead Redemption 2 makes people homicidal maniacs in real life.



    And I can say it 100 times or more but you probably still won't get what I'm saying.
    But, just in case:
    For the final time

    Censorship-bad

    Artistic freedom-good
     
  4. Message #24 of 59 Mar 26, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
    Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    9,217
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Dead or Alive Xtreme is the DoA series but with the sexy stuff dialed way up. It still exists and the newest entry either recently came out or is coming out this year. So if you're suggesting that developers are too afraid of criticism to release sexy games, that's false.

    If anything, the drive to have DoA6 be a competitive game for a long period of time (turning into a "games as a service" platform for DLC) was probably a bigger motivator in the decision to dial down the skin and have it be more accepted by the competitive community. It would just be odd to see boobs flying around on one TV while Mario is punching Pikachu on the next TV over.

    And either way, this is literally, technically not censorship. Did a government or industry group force Namco to make the game less sexy? Did public pressure after DoA5 scare the developers? Or did they make a calculated business decision? Just because you or someone else wish they had made a different business decision, that doesn't mean it's censorship.

    EDIT: Dead or Alive is published by Koei Tecmo, not Namco.

    I just did some research into this and KT was very clear that their decision to alter content or publish certain games in the DoA series is essentially a business decision. Putting aside the potential PR "issue" of a well-known sexy series releasing another installment that includes sexy content (which is a pretty unexciting issue for SJWs because, again, it's a well-known sexy series), the reality is that the content will turn a lot of people away, which is a huge problem for a franchise that has seen declining sales over time simply because the market is saturated with better fighting games and better sexy games. So the options are to release yet another sexy game to appeal to the exceptionally small base of fans or design the game from the get-go to have a wider appeal and hope to expand the base of players.

    Which again, backs up my point that this was not censorship but a business decision.
     
  5. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Are the Extreme series (3, and Scarlett) being released in the U.S? No. And why is that Morgan?
    doa.

    Now before you say sales don't justify release, two words. Digital only.
    And yes the new system like PS4, and Switch are region free so you can import them for close to $100 on PlayAsia….but at that cost you think people will still want them?
     
  6. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110

    Censorship:
    the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable


    Whether or not you are being forced by the government, or being forced to change an art style by from the producer of a game at Koei Tecmo in fear of public rage...it is still censorship.
     
  7. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    9,217
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    You can buy digital games on the Switch from another region VERY easily. To suggest you need to spend $100 to import a physical game (unless, of course, the game actually costs Y10,000) is misleading. In fact, I can quickly and easily find DoAX3 for Switch for $70 as an physical import. This means you can either make a JP region account on your Switch and buy the game for the exact cost or import a cartridge for $70...not $100.

    I'll also throw out there that the reviews for the DoAX games are generally abysmal. I do not believe the reason that the game doesn't have an audience in the US solely because the mainline DoA series is cutting back on the boobs. Maybe it's because they're not very good? (Again, talking strictly about the Xtreme games here in this paragraph.)

    There are plenty of costs associated with digital releases, like localization of text, advertising, and even submission fees to a platform holder, that can easily make the case for not bothering to bring a game to another region. Outside of Japan, the series isn't selling, even the more risque entries, so its just not worth even bothering with all the releases.

    And no, making a change to a product for business decisions is not tantamount to censorship. Even if it could possibly be considered as censorship, the decision to make a product that will sell better, be played more, and possibly have higher review scores is the right business decision.

    Earlier, a point was made about how there would be a massive outcry if movies were forced to hold back on content in order to maintain lower ratings, like less nudity in order to avoid being rated R. Umm...this happens ALL THE TIME. Tons of movies cut content (curse words, violence, nudity, etc) to get PG-13 ratings solely to get more money when they release in theaters. This is a very common business decision. And frankly...there's nothing wrong with it if it's done willingly by the company versus by force of a regulatory body. Nobody is telling a film/game studio "you must cut the nudity down or else you can't release this." THAT is censorship. Instead, the companies are recognizing that certain content will lead to a situation where they make less money, and their primary goal is to make money, so they cut the content if they think it will help.
     
  8. Message #28 of 59 Apr 6, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
    Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Or Sony could censor a game for them, and make it easy right?
    https://n4g.com/news/2219677/dead-or-alive-xtreme-3-scarlet-censored-by-sony-on-ps4-no-changes-for-nintendo-switch

    "The official website has listed the features for the game classified by each platform (via) and there is a strange omission on the PS4 version. There is no Golden Fan or Softening Gel in this version of Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 for the PS4, even though it was available in an earlier version when there was no strict censorship policy at Sony.

    Both of these items had some rather ‘curious’ uses but if Sony allowed them in the past, there should no excuse in allowing them now. It is still a mystery why this sudden change was made at Sony, but it seems to be affecting more of the games coming from Japan. Koei Tecmo, who is the publisher of Dead or Alive series, is no small-scale developer and if even they have to comply with the new Sony policies, it shows that they are getting strict with time."



     
  9. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    9,217
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    I looked into this particular issue of censoring the PS4 version of Scarlet. It seems to be a limitation on Sony's end, but not something new that they decided to enforce for just this game. It appears to be a standard part of their platform rules. I'm not entirely sure I'd call that censorship. I mean, if someone wants to run an obscene commercial on Nickelodeon at 11 AM and Nickelodeon says no, is that censorship or just a reasonable application of Nickelodeon's own standard rules? Similar situation here. It's not like Sony made up these rules JUST to limit what this one game could have in it. By making a game for another company's platform, Koei Tecmo knew the rules and has to adhere to them. It's unfortunate that Sony has more rules than the other platform holders, but...those are the rules.
     
  10. Message #30 of 59 Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
    Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110

    You can can call it whatever you want Morgan, but the Sony policy is blatant censorship. These games are already M rated or 18+ in other countries. This policy is just Sony micro-managing and eliminating content that has every right to be featured in the game. Scary times indeed.

    This article sums it up nicely.
    https://www.gamerevolution.com/features/450587-sony-censorship-policy

    "Society has, to an extent, always been sexually repressed, so it’s not surprising to see such timid behavior by platform holders. Certainly not every game explores these themes in the most meaningful of ways (a largely satirical game like Senran Kagura is not going into the depths of Ladykiller in a Bind), but we’re getting to a dangerous point where even mild sexuality (which does not automatically equate to being obscene or just material meant to titillate) is being forced to change while gratuitous violence gets a free pass. Something has to be changed here, as the current Sony censorship strategy is clearly not the answer"
     
  11. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    9,217
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Sorry, but Sony is running a closed ecosystem. They control what kind of content goes on there. There's nothing keeping KT from producing the raunchiest game they want and selling it through their company's website, so I have a hard time really getting concerned about this particular form of not-quite-censorship.

    Further, I don't feel like there's a ton of artistic merit to rubbing virtual goop on cartoon boobs, so I have no issue with this brand of censorship.
     
  12. Message #32 of 59 Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
    Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110

    Whatever you say man.

    I'm done talking to you.
     
  13. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2000
    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    528
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Uhhh, yeah Morgan, what Sony is doing is the very definition of censorship. I can't even begin to imagine how you would explain it any other way. Just because it's a 'closed ecosystem' doesn't change the fact that it's censorship.
     
    Bryan^H likes this.
  14. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Thank you.
     
  15. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    9,217
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Sony implemented their content policy a while back and has been enforcing it for a couple years. A handful of smaller indie games had been impacted by it. I don't think this is that big of a deal, for a game about girls in tiny bikinis playing beach volleyball to have 2 items removed.

    For decades, the standing policy for platform owners is that no Adults Only (AO) rated games could be released on consoles. Was this censorship? Why was nobody complaining about that particular policy for the last 20+ years? Is it a travesty that the games where you bind and torture naked anime girls aren't sitting on store shelves as the newest Switch releases right next to Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu?

    If you want to play an uncensored version of Scarlet, there are multiple avenues to do so, including domestic releases on consoles besides the PS4. That doesn't really bother me.
     
  16. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2000
    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    528
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Not sure how a discussion of DoA6 changes turned into torture porn comparisons, but ok.. at least you are admitting now that censorship does actually exist.
     
    Bryan^H likes this.
  17. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    9,217
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    My point with the torture porn comparison was about where we would agree is the cutoff for an acceptable limit for what Sony should allow on it's platform. Are you guys ok with Sony saying you can't depict physically mutilating anime girls? Or rubbing gel on nearly-naked anime girls? Why would some things be accepted by us as obscene enough to be fine with Sony limiting them while others are considered too much censorship?

    I still disagree that this is censorship because you can easily, VERY EASILY, still get access to the complete version of the game.
     
  18. Message #38 of 59 Apr 9, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
    Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    The Sony censorship policy is acutually quite staggering in how uneven, and unfair it is. Triple A games are immune. Games like MK 11 allows fatalities which horribly mutilate females by male characters is OK, but rubbing lotion on female characters in another game is an instant deletion. Come on Sony knock this double standard, cherry picking censorship crap off right now.
    3:40 in the video


    Again MK 11 has every right to include these fatalities being a Mature rated game. But I find this sort of thing more disturbing than a girl in a bikini.
     
  19. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    :wacko:
    Please, just stop.
     
  20. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,554
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    I wish.
     

Share This Page