DD EX & DTS ES upgrade (1 Viewer)

[Wayne McRae]

It looks like Parasound has come up with a product that will hook up to your existing DD/DTS receiver/pre pro and decode the extra surround channels.It's called the CSE-6.1 and retails for $400.00.I found a review in The Perfect Vision.Sounds like a great way to get the new formats without starting from scratch and spending a bundle.I found the article interesting.It says that with DD EX,originally it was to have speakers in the ceiling,but theaters would not pay the extra to do this:rolleyesThe reviewer hooked up his setup with a extra channel above his head for the pod-race scene and said it was fantastic.I can see all of us now'"please honey,let me put just one more speaker in the living room ceiling" For a street price of around $350.00 this might be a good upgrade considering that there is still a limited amount of 6.1 discs out there.Check it out @ www.parasound.com
Wayner

 

[Jerry Klawiter]

Smart Center Surround 3X Decoder for 6.1 playback
Wide Screen Review
Works great, I just placed one in the Hardware For Sale/Trade area.

 

[FrankB]

I have one of the Smart CS-3X rear center channel decoders, it is supposed to have the same decoder chip inside as the Parasound, but it is cheaper. The Parasound is nicer to setup than the Smart unit, but both should perform the same. Smart unit has a knob on the front panel to set the rear center volume, but to set the levels of the other channels you have to turn screws on the back panel with a screwdriver.

Ideally it would go in between the pre-amp outs for the rear side surrounds and the amps to subtract the rear center information from the rear sides, but most recievers don't allow you to do that. You can just "add on" the rear center channel and leave the regular surrounds with both the side + rear information. Then you just need access to the rear surround pre-amp outs (or rear surround speaker level outputs) and add an amp and speaker(s) for the rear center. I've found it works pretty well this way.

The unit does generate the rear center information, which can be very effective, but it has too much background hiss and this was bothersome. I did have the side surrounds hooked up correctly to subract the rear center information, but I switched it back to get rid of the hiss in the side surrounds. My rear center speakers (two in parallel) are mounted on the ceiling above the sofa. I only notice the hiss from the rear center channel if I lie down so my ear is facing the speakers, if I'm sitting up a I don't notice it.

I may rip it open and see if there are some op-amps that could be upgraded to improve the hiss problem, but I haven't gotten around to that.

Its too bad about the hiss, because I really like the rear center channel, and it is surprising how much of the rear center information is really coming from overhead effects - so my ceiling mounted speakers work quite well (my sofa is up against the back wall, so real rear speakers don't fit anywhere else).

It works on all 5.1 encoded DVDs, they don't have to be DD 5.1 EX or DTS ES, but those will generally make the most of the effect. It will also work as a extra Dolby Pro-Logic Surround speaker if you leave it on, giving you another speaker or two for the pro-logic surround, which can also be a nice effect. I just leave it on all the time unless I'm listening to music.

 

[Jerry Klawiter]

FrankB,

You should get that hiss checked out.

I have never heard any hiss from this unit

as it was connected via line level inputs.

Maybe you have the gain set to high?

 

[Wayne McRae]

FrankB.Am I correct,that your 2 back surrounds are both on the ceiling,running in a straight line to your TV? How do you like it set-up that way?I was thinking of putting 1 on the rear wall about 4ft behind the listening position and 1 on the ceiling above.Do you think that would sound OK? Thanx in advance for any response.

Wayner

 

[FrankB]

I have to two speakers on the ceiling so the tweeters are over either end of the couch. I had a single speaker before and I like this better, the effect is less obvious - it works but it is less distracting.
One speaker in back and one overhead is a new idea, I suppose you could try it, but there are some problems with a single rear speaker.
Check out this paper:
Link Removed
Specifically the bottom of page 10 and the top of page 11 where they talk about how a single rear speaker has some shortcomings that are fixed by using two rear speakers.

 

[Wayne McRae]

That's a great read,Thanx Frank!!

Wayner

 

[FrankB]

Here's another interesting paper: Link Removed
It's on Pardigm's web site as a way to sell dipole surround speakers. It makes a compelling argument in favor of dipole surrounds in a 5.1 system. But after you read the paper think about what happens when you go to 6.1 sound, it blows his arguments for using dipole surround speakers right out of the water.

 

[Peter Overduin]

Frank; I'd be interested in hearing more about your setup.

I want to go to a 7.1 configuration (probably a Denon 3802)but the layout of my room pretty much confines me to a single rear speaker. The idea of an additional one in the ceiling is interesting. I can also put two on the ceiling.

I have Paradigm CC170 dipole rear surrounds. Do you use direct radiating or dipoles in the ceiling?

Thx

 

[Grady Hollums]

OK:

I have a Kenwood VR-407 receiver/amp/preamp all in one. Is there any way I can get the 6.1 (DD-EX/DTS-ES) out of my system from buying one of these things? o9r do I have to have external amps for my speakers?

Thanks!

I am just trying to decide if I should just wait for the prioce to go down for DD-EX/DTS-ES receivers or if I could buy one of these products discused in this thread and get it that way?

The Lord OF The Rings is coming out and I really would like to hear it in DD-EX!! Thaks for all your help!

 

[FrankB]

I have a Kenwood VR-407 receiver/amp/preamp all in one. Is there any way I can get the 6.1 (DD-EX/DTS-ES) out of my system from buying one of these things? o9r do I have to have external amps for my speakers?

The whole point of the Parasound or Smart rear channel decoders is that they can add onto a 5.1 reciever, but you do have to buy at least a single channel amplifier. Marantz makes a nice monoblock. Audio Source makes some cheaper monoblocks that are ok if you open them up and either cut the wire to the fan or add a 100 ohm resistor in series with the fan. I have an Audio Source 5.2 amp with a 100 ohm resistor added driving my Clark Platinum Tactile Transducer (that's a whole 'nother story) and it stays nice and cool. Stock the fans are ridiculously noisy. If you add the price of a amp and a decoder it costs more than some of the 6.1 recievers you can buy today so it might not be worth it.

 

[Peter Overduin]

Thanks Frank.
Well, I just bought my wife a nice new Kitchen Aid side-by-side freezer fridge combo today, for 2K, so I see, in my very near future, a Denon 3802 and another pair of Paradigm Mini-monitor speakers (same as the mains) for my center rears!
I think my first best choice will be to mount them from the ceiling and pont them in a slanted (45 degree) angle over the listening area, centered, with equal spacing from each of the rear dipole surrounds.
Failing that, I could get speaker stands, mount them at the same height as my mains, and place them each time I watch a movie with the 6.1 track. Then I'll have to put them 'away' again after the movie, but who EVER wants to put any piece of HT gear away anywhere?!
The idea of a single rear on the wall behind me and then another one at a 45 degree angle from the ceiling in a straight line from it, with both still behind the surrounds is an interesting idea. Would you put it immediately above or slightly forward of the lower rear? Anybody actually doing this? Thx

 

[Peter Overduin]

Anyone have a thought on the idea above about putting a direct-radiating center rear behind the listening area, and another one above and forward of it (dropped from ceiling?), but behind the surrounds?

 

[FrankB]

Anyone have a thought on the idea above about putting a direct-radiating center rear behind the listening area, and another one above and forward of it (dropped from ceiling?), but behind the surrounds?

There's no harm in trying this arraingment. If the distances between the rear and the overhead speaker are close (both equal distance to the listener) it might work well. If one is much farther away than the other only the closer speaker will be percieved by the listener. By "close" I mean less than 2' difference.