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Discussion in 'DVD' started by Bill Griffith, May 4, 2002.
Heres that web site, or as it existed in 1999. http://web1.archive.org/web/19991009...s/arrakis.html
Correct! And for a bonus twenty, try to make this off-topic part of the thread "on"-topic, by coming up with a way to link FCW with Lynch's Dune (however tenuously).
I'll bite. I can't think of a direct link between the two movies, but I can come up with two, 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon style: Freddie Jones was in Dune. Freddie Jones was in Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed with Peter Cushing. Peter Cushing was in Frankenstein Created Woman. or Freddie Francis was Cinematographer on Dune. Freddie Francis was the Director of Evil of Frankenstein, and others, all of which starred Peter Cushing. Peter Cushing was in Frankenstein Created Woman.
Nicely done, Peter. P.S. Smart alec!
Out of respect for David Lynch, should Universal, which to my knowledge is currently working on a Dune: Special Edition DVD release, two separate editions? The Theatrical Version, custom catered to Lynchian style DVD specs (i.e. no chapter stops.) While the much debate TV Edit would have it’s own release. It could contain a new documentary on the controversy this version caused. The TV Edit could have chapter stops because it doesn’t represent David Lynch. I’m thinking the TV Edit could be 3 Disc.
Is this knowledge based on anything other than the material covered in this thread? Since I think it's very unlikely that Universal will ever release the execrable Alan Smithee version (and it wouldn't be widescreen if they did), I doubt it matters. And AFAIK, Lynch is not opposed to chapter stops in general. He just didn't want them on Mulholland Drive. M.
Or on The Elephant Man, Blue Velvet, Eraserhead, Straight Story, etc.
Re: Lynch and chapter stops, here is the text on the insert from the DVD of The Straight Story: The Straight Story does not have chapter stops, neither does Eraserhead. I don't know firsthand about any of his other movies on DVD.
I don't know what edition of Blue Velvet you're looking at, Jeremy, but my MGM special edition (with transfer supervised by Lynch) has chapter stops, 28 of 'em. I don't own the other discs, but the only Lynch title that ever generated a lot of traffic around here on this issue was Mulholland Drive. Larry, thanks for that information. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens with any subsequent edition of Dune (assuming there is one). M.
I stand corrected. I assume that MGM was unwilling to accommodate him.
I'll believe it when I see it. (how do you post/copy a quote from another member?)
TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME also has chapter stops, although it doesn't have any chapter screen menus. Also, there's no reason Universal couldn't remaster the extra footage from the DUNE T.V. version in widescreen, since obviously it must exist on film in their vaults, where else would they have gotten those scenes to include in the TV version to begin with? What would be nice would be a release of DUNE akin to what was done with the ALIEN special editions- the true theatrical cut, plus a fully remastered "screenplay edit" put together in the SPIRIT of Lynch's final version (unlike the horrible way the TV cut was cobbled together), but simply closer to what his screenplay originally intended. The TV version itself is terrible, but some of the extra scenes themselves are quite good. If they were simply incorporated back into the theatrical cut without chopping the rest of the film up and chaning the voice-overs, repeating shots, altering music, etc. etc. like the TV version did, we might have something decent. Vincent
I wish they'd release a SE of Children of Dune. That was a great miniseries.
Dune is a beautiful train wreck. Ambitious. Spectacular. But still a train wreck. It was the Battlefield Earth of its day, in fact. I'd rather see a two-hour documentary about what went wrong than see the whole mess unleashed on the world again. I'm actually rather curious about the TV version, because I don't know how this thing could get worse, and perhaps this version actually improves the film.
Well, as one person put it, there is always more down. But I'd second the vote for a documentary that actually covers what went wrong. Even though I suspect a script that makes little to no sense was the start. It has to be a bad sign when a movie opens by having someone tell you the plot. Still, with the director and the cast and the budget it really would be interesting to see where it all came apart.
By the way, file this away in the trivia books -- the first film to ever play on a THX screen in Austin, Texas was Dune. The second was Fantasia - the 1982 version, with the entire soundtrack re-recorded by modern musicians and conducted by Irwin Kostal. .
Actually, I don't think it would be possible to create a widescreen TV version, as there were some shots that simply flipped existing shots or used one half or the other of other existing shots. It really isn't an improvement. Just longer.
In addition, the effects shots would have to be completed. For example, the Fremmen do not have blue eyes in any of the scenes added to the TV version. The resulting back-and-forth in their appearance is bizarre (at best). An inapt comparison. Dune has always had its fans, and there are a number of sequences (mostly in the first half) that still have a kind of strange magic which hints at what might have been. No one could ever say that about Battlefield Earth. M.
I guess if Universal ever wanted to create an "extended" version using deleted footage, fine, but the TV version is bloody awful. The storyboards and stuff are bad enough, but that old geezer narration is absolutely painful.
For that matter, "creating" additional scenes by cobbling together different clips from different parts of the film and throwing in sound bytes, and making us believe that it's a "lost" scene, is an outright cheat and a slap in the face to die-hard Dune fans. Case in point: the "scene" where the Reverend Mother travels to Caladan to meet with Lady Jessica is nowhere to be found in the original novel, nor was it shot for the film. There are several smaller moments throughout the extended version, from different shots of the Atreides military patrolling the outside of the headquarters, to the Harkonnen forces approaching Arakkis, to the transport arriving on Giedi Prime to deliver Baron Harkonnen and Feyd, to the Fremen attacks on the spice miners, that are cobbled and repeated throughout the TV version. Somehow, I have trouble justifying doubling or even tripling different shots throughout an extended TV broadcast of a film and calling it "lost" or "new" footage. True, one or two shots were duplicated for the extended destruction of Krypton in the TV broadcasts of "Superman", and that works. But in the case of Lynch's "Dune", the TV broadcast is a mess. Taking creative liberties is one thing, as was the case with John Harrison's very good "Dune" miniseries from 2000, in which he expanded the character of Princess Irulan from an omniscient narrator (as portrayed in Lynch's theatrical adaptation) to an active participant. That made her on-screen presence better, and I can deal with that. And Michael has an excellent point in which many of the additional moments involving the Fremens' eyes switching back and forth from blue to normal gets confusing. If those shots were restored, it would be a basic CGI coloring of the eyes in those additional moments. Who's to say how much footage there is that is still out there that hasn't been seen by the public? For all we know, Lynch may either be sitting on the footage, or it could have been destroyed and forever lost. This is a strangely appealing film, for some reason, and it has its strengths and weaknesses throughout. We should be grateful for what we have, even in its flawed form.