Dark Shadows: The Beginning (1 Viewer)

[GeorgeJA]

Originally Posted by Ockeghem ( I guess DS wouldn't be DS without the occasional screw-up).

 

[Ockeghem]

George,

You noticed that about Laura's dress as well? I saw it for the first time last night.

"Is David really Burke's child?"

I don't think so. But still, the speculation is a lot of fun. And you're right -- the show does keep pulling you in.

My take on that line was that David would be the exact same child no matter whom Laura had been matched up with, due to her being a phoenix. But that too is just speculation on my part.

Your line about David also reminded me of something else. I'll put it in a spoiler in case you haven't heard any of the audio dramas that succeeded the series. It is a *major* spoiler having to do with Carolyn and Victoria – do not read it if you do not wish to be spoiled. Victoria and Carolyn are sisters, as was revealed when Carolyn read her mother's will several years later (after Elizabeth had passed away). I don't know if this was ever part of Lela Swift's, Ron Sproat’s, or perhaps Bob Costello's plan for the five year series, but now when I listen to lines that have to do with Elizabeth's affection for Victoria, I hear them in an entirely new light. Now, I cannot help but think of her as Victoria *Collins*, not Victoria Winters.

 

[Ockeghem]

We watched episodes 136-138 tonight. And I realized for the first time that episode 136 uses a kinescope for the final two or so minutes. It is spliced in during Maggie and Sam's conversation regarding the painting of Laura. I never noticed this before. I'm beginning to think it may be because I have watched these for years on VHS tape and for whatever reason it escaped me. This is my first time through the phoenix arc (Dark Shadows: The Beginning) on DVD. So much to discuss -- but I'll wait until George and others have seen these episodes.

BTW, I am going to continue to use the consecutive episode order numbering (i.e., 1-1225) when discussing this series. As most know, the numbering starts over when they get to a new shooting year. For example, no. 136 is actually #1 for 1967 (aired January 2, 1967). So at this point, the slates read episode nos. 1-3, and not 136-138. But the DVD menu reads 136-138, which is what I prefer. The latter numbering scheme is also coded to various Dark Shadows episode guides, which I find convenient.

 

[JamesSmith]

Originally Posted by Tim Tucker

The Laura Collins story arc is one of my favorites, just for its sheer originality. Plus you can see it as the model for what the original Barnabas arc was supposed to be, before the character took off.

As for the kinescope insert, perhaps the original videotape was damaged, and MPI used the film to fill the gap.

Dear Tim: How do you know this Laura Collins story was the model for the original Barnabas arc?

Guys: Can you tell me a bit more about this Laura Collins/Phoenix character actress? How does she rank against Angelique/Lara Parker? What was she supposed to accomplish with David? Was the Laura who returned to Collinswood the origingal Laura or some sort of possessed doppelganger?

James

 

[Tim Tucker]

For me, the originality of the Laura Collins storyline is the fact that she is a human phoenix, which is a concept I have never run across anywhere else. Additionally, since the idea is so original, the viewer is uncertain how a phoenix could be defeated, while every child learns the rules for vampires, werewolves, etc.

As for it being a model for the Barnabas arc, Jonathan Frid has said that it was supposed to be a short term job. He was in the process of moving to the West Coast to take up a teaching position. His agent had to convince him to audition, and he only did so to earn some money for his move.

There are structural parallels as well. There is a supernatural being (Laura Collins/Barnabas Collins) come to live at Collinwood, a resident of Collinsport endangered by said being (David Collins/Maggie Evans), and an adversary from out of town come to battle the undead (Dr. Peter Guthrie/Dr. Julia Hoffman). I imagine the original ending would have been similar to House of Dark Shadows -- the rescue of Maggie and the destruction of Barnabas and Willie.

You can actually see the writers coping with the decision to keep Barnabas around, because the storyline started running in circles for weeks (Barnabas moving on to Victoria, and then Carolyn; Julia falling in love with Barnabas; David getting trapped in the mausoleum; all that business with the journal; and the low point of Barnabas trying to scare Julia to death) until the 1795 storyline kicked off.

As for the Laura/Angelique comparison, if Laura had not appeared, we would not have had Angelique. The characters are cut from the same cloth. Their motivations are different, however -- Laura want her children to be eternally reborn with her (which is a goal you can have some sympathy with), while Angelique is just the spurned vengeful lover.
Here's some food for thought. If Diana Millay had not become pregnant, the Laura Collins storyline would have continued on much longer. If the writers had decided on a vampire story afterwards, Jonathan Frid would have no longer been in New York to audition for the part, and Dark Shadows may have been a much different (and shorter-lived) soap opera.

 

[Brian Himes]

Not to get this off topic too much, but does anyone else feel that the show really loses a bit of the atmosphere when it goes to color? For me, I found that the show looked and felt better in black and white. It really added to the overall gothic feel of the show.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Oh, yes. Unless you have the genius of a Mario Bava, color is just not gothic enough.

 

[Ockeghem]

Originally Posted by Brian Himes

Not to get this off topic too much, but does anyone else feel that the show really loses a bit of the atmosphere when it goes to color? For me, I found that the show looked and felt better in black and white. It really added to the overall gothic feel of the show.

Brian,

Yes, I very much agree with this. I'm probably the only person on the HTF who would watch the entire series in b&w rather than in color if I had the choice and who also genuinely prefers kinescopes to non-kinescoped episodes. There is something very mysterious and 'gothic' (as you say) about the show looking and feeling better in b&w. And for me, the kinescopes emphasize this feeling even more so.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Originally Posted by Tim Tucker

As for the kinescope insert, perhaps the original videotape was damaged, and MPI used the film to fill the gap.

Another possible explanation is that perhaps this episode was entirely in kinescoped form on its original VHS release, and that MPI later found the original videotapes, making them able to upgrade the picture quality for all but the damaged sections? If they went to that trouble, it's a shame they didn't spend some money to "fix" the small kinescoped section(s) with the Lustre process that, like the VidFire process used in the UK, would restore the video "look" to the kinescoped footage and would have made the whole episode at least look the same.


I know there was an ongoing search for Dark Shadows master videotapes in the latter '90s. I don't know what they turned up as far as DS, but at least one of these very searches turned up a bunch of tapes of Hollywood Squares that were long-ago considered "lost".

 

[Ockeghem]

Originally Posted by AndyMcKinney




Another possible explanation is that perhaps this episode was entirely in kinescoped form on its original VHS release, and that MPI later found the original videotapes, making them able to upgrade the picture quality for all but the damaged sections? If they went to that trouble, it's a shame they didn't spend some money to "fix" the small kinescoped section(s) with the Lustre process that, like the VidFire process used in the UK, would restore the video "look" to the kinescoped footage and would have made the whole episode at least look the same.



I know there was an ongoing search for Dark Shadows master videotapes in the latter '90s. I don't know what they turned up as far as DS, but at least one of these very searches turned up a bunch of tapes of Hollywood Squares that were long-ago considered "lost".

Andy,

But you're missing the most important point in all of this discussion, and frankly one I'm quite surprised you haven't even begun to address:
I just noticed your avatar for the first time today. Joanna Cameron! She was a crush of mine many, many years ago. Nice choice!

 

[GeorgeJA]

Originally Posted by Ockeghem

Oh, and I prefer the feel of the B/W episodes too.

 

[Ockeghem]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJA

Oh, and I prefer the feel of the B/W episodes too.

George,

Goodness, I think I'd be run off this Board if I spoiled the Laura Collins arc -- and especially the significance of the painting -- for you. If you really want me to tell you, I will PM you. Just let me know.

I love Mitchell Ryan as Burke Devlin. I wish he hadn't had to leave the show. But I understand all too well his reasons for having to leave.

Those b&w episodes are at times mesmerizing.

 

[GeorgeJA]

Scott,

No, no. I was just thinking out loud. I *do* want to be surprised. But thanks for the offer.

 

[Ockeghem]

George,

It's a wonderful story line -- captivating, at times chilling, and with a few twists and turns along the way. You're in for a wonderful ride.

 

[Brent S]

When Laura returned two years later for the 1897-Quentin storyline, she is Edward's ex-wife & Jamison's mother...

Although we don't know it in the 1966-Laura storyline, is anyone besides me a little "creeped out" to know that Roger Collins married his grandmother?

 

[Ockeghem]

We watched episode nos. 139 and 140 tonight.

The sheriff stopped by Collinwood in the previous episode (#138) to tell the Collins family that the body of Laura Collins had been found in a fire in Phoenix. This is quite odd, since Laura is currently staying at Matthew's cottage. Roger learns that Burke is at the cottage, and goes there with shotgun in hand, ready to kill Burke.

David almost falls off of Widows Hill during a pre-planned meeting by Victoria. He's still reluctant to go anywhere near his mother, but is finally convinced to take a walk with Victoria near Widows Hill, where they both meet Laura. Suspicions continue to mount as to what actually occurred in Phoenix, Arizona, and who it is that is staying with the Collins family.

 

[Jack Cleveland]

Okay, I must be a little slow... Until this message, I never caught the irony of Laura's previous place of residence being Pheonix!!

 

[Ockeghem]

George, You may want to skip the spoiler portion of this post. My oldest daughter and I had a fun afternoon of viewing. We watched episodes 141-147 today. The phoenix story line is really heating up, so to speak. When the first of two paintings that Sam is working on (showing Laura consumed in a fire) is eventually moved to Collinwood (Sam doesn’t want it in his house any longer), it begins to glow, but not when Laura looks at it. She enters David’s room, and it glows – but when she looks at it, it stops its shimmer. And of course the incomplete nature of the painting is quite haunting – you know what the lower right hand corner is being reserved for, but not seeing it yet is somewhat chilling in its own right. The battle between the ghost of Josette and Laura (or actually, the phoenix who resembles Laura) is quite captivating. The beginnings of this battle are around the time that David brings Laura to the Old House. You can tell that Laura doesn’t want to be there, almost as if she is creeped out by the place. And it’s really interesting when the portrait begins to glow when Laura is alone with the painting. The ghost of Josette is compelling various people (David, Vicky, Sam) to do things they normally wouldn’t do, but it’s because Josette is trying to reveal who Laura really is. But Laura is countering this in her own way, and then Josette counters that. The more Sam paints, the more David seems to be afraid of his mother. So Laura compels Sam to fall asleep, and when he does, the cigarette he is smoking falls out of his hands and on to a newspaper, starting a good fire. When he wakes up, he burns both hands (his left hand -- the painting hand -- more so than his right), and is now bandaged and unable to paint. A few episodes ago, Vicky was visiting Laura at the cottage, and she was admiring a locket that Laura was wearing. In it, Laura tells Vicky that she has kept a lock of David’s hair, which she put in there after he was born. Then in a subsequent episode, a detective shows up at Collinwood, asking if he might speak to Laura. He has brought with him some personal items of Laura’s which were found in the fire in Phoenix. The locket is one of them. Elizabeth is certain that this is the original, and she tells the detective and Vicky that it is the only one in existence. Of course, Vicky doesn’t understand how this could be, since she saw the locket around Laura’s neck firsthand. She goes with the detective and Elizabeth to the cottage to visit Laura, and it is eventually revealed that Vicky must again have misunderstood. And the ghost of Josette is adding some spice to all of this by having the Collins family history book open up by itself, at the page where Josette is wearing the original locket.
Episode #145 was a kinescope. It was perhaps the roughest kinescope I've ever heard, although the video was fine. There was a rumbling sound throughout that I have never noticed before with other Dark Shadows kinescopes. We watched that episode twice today. It begins with David and Laura in David's room, and both are discussing the painting. Quite creepy, to say the least. The special features for Dark Shadows: The Beginning (Collection 4) are wonderful. We watched the three interviews with Diana Millay (Laura), writer Malcolm Marmorstein, and producer Bob Costello. The segment with Marmorstein was particularly intriguing, as we learned not only his beginnings with playwriting, but also that he learned some of his craft from James Thurber and Marlon Brando. Marmorstein worked as an electrician for various theater groups and television studios, and while there, would read plays during the day, and work on writing in the evening. It was neat to learn how he (Marmorstein) came up with the name of Barnabas, and then asked his daughter about the name, and she loved it. But when he pitched it to Costello, the latter wasn’t too impressed. It wasn’t until Bob Costello drove by a cemetery, saw the name of Barnabas on a tombstone, and then contacted Marmorstein to tell him that he was sold on the name.

 

[Charles Ellis]

About that locket: it kind of fits that Laura and Josette both had that locket, as it was later divulged in the series that both ladies were married to Jeremiah Collins!
Regarding Mr. Marmorstein: I'm surprised you didn't mention his days as a writer on Peyton Place during its final season!

And Brent, concerning Roger's odd matrimonial history, perhaps it was a Freudian slip when he later said 'incestors' instead of 'ancestors'.

 

[Ockeghem]

"Regarding Mr. Marmorstein: I'm surprised you didn't mention his days as a writer on Peyton Place during its final season!"
Charles,

I would have mentioned it, but I didn't know about it. I don't believe that Marmorstein mentioned Peyton Place during the interview, although he did mention having worked with other networks / studios.

Regarding the locket, very true. But I'm trying not to get ahead of myself in these posts.