DA5ES Has a serious flaw in 5.1/7.1 inputs (1 Viewer)

[Seth_L]

But unless the manufacturer of a given DVD-Audio or SACD player come out and tell you exactly how they're mixing things, it's kinda hard to tell.

Maybe my +6dB is just fine for the .1 LFE channel, but it might be too much, or not enough to compensate for the bass from the 5 other channels.

This shouldn't be this messy.

How many receivers have a seperate bass level control for just the 5.1/7.1 input(s)?

Yeah, I've yet to see any maker acually specify how the bass redirection is done. I'm also not aware of any receivers that have a seperate bass level control for the 5.1/7.1 channel input. Someone should make a wide bandwidth gain control (actually it doesn't even have to be wide BW since it's only Low Frequency) that has just a simple RCA in and a RCA out. I think it would be pretty easy and simple to make. I might have to have a little fun with an op-amp and a potentiometer. I don't have any real issue with the bass management in the Sony SACD player. It's just that I don't want to re-adjust my reciever every time I change between a DD/DTS or SACD.

Seth

 

[Mike C F]

Okay....I've read through this thread twice and I'm still not really sure what, if anything, I need to do to my system. I'm a newbie to this audio game. I bought a DA5ES and a C555ES back in May along with a set of Diva speakers (6.1, 2.1, and c3). I set up both the reciever and player to know that I only had the 5 speakers. I told teh player that I had 5 full range speakers. From the beginning I've thought the system was a little light in bass. I didn't want to spend a lot of time in calibration as everyone told me both the speakers and player where going to change quite a bit over time and I am also in the process of remodeling the room where the eqpt is. I also felt that it was likely that my ears were going to need some adjusting to listening to higher quality playback. Anyways...I'm still of teh opinion that I'm missing a touch of bass.

How can I test this....all of the calibration discs that I've seen are dvd's, but I really want to calibrate my CD/SACD player.

Mike

 

[Jon W (NoVA)]

Well I tried my CP72 with the speakers set to large, and the level of the sub-woofer dropped even more.

I read in a review of the Denon 1600 that it still passes the full bandwidth thru to all speakers even when speakers are set to small.

So if I had to guess, I'd say that Panasonic is not boosting the LFE the 10dB that's removed during recording, and that I'm actually seeing a boost in bass by setting the speakers to small.

What a mess.

Oh, and in DTS the disparity is even worse. All the levels are boosted in DTS (which I believe is a known phenomena related to DD's dialog normalization feature), but the subwoofer level was even lower and couldn't be balanced in the player any longer.

Anyway, it looks like if I use the optical output for everything but DVD-A I'll be ok. For DVD-A I can boost the sub output by +6dB and use speakers set to small to come close.

But what are they thinking?

 

[Jon W (NoVA)]

Sounds like you need an SACD test tone disk, Mike.

I don't have SACD, so I'm not sure what your options are.

 

[Seth_L]

On my Sony SACD player it doesn't seem to lack bass if I set it to play all channels direct. However it's hard to say because I don't have any point of reference. Also I'm not convinced that the .1 is actually used only for Bass. For example on the Celine Dion - All the Way (A Decade of Song) it's most definitely not a LFE (or I should say that there's more than just Bass in the signal). There's no indication that it's supposed to be used for anything else though.

Seth

 

[Dan Joy]

Seth, what kind of speakers are you using. I am using multidirect for my sacd player and have been quite pleased with my bass from my front towers in two channel sacd mode with player bass (mis)management off. If I use 2channel +sub, then I need to add 6-8 dbs on lfe output on receiver. I also prefer multi for multichannel discs as I agree that depending on the source there is plenty of sound from my sub.

 

[Seth_L]

Seth, what kind of speakers are you using. I am using multidirect for my sacd player and have been quite pleased with my bass from my front towers in two channel sacd mode with player bass (mis)management off. If I use 2channel +sub, then I need to add 6-8 dbs on lfe output on receiver. I also prefer multi for multichannel discs as I agree that depending on the source there is plenty of sound from my sub.

Dan,

I'm using Infinity Interludes all around IL40s in the front and IL10s on the sides and back (I'm duplicating the rears to the sides). I have an IL25c center channel. I've simply been listening to it in Multidirect also. I'm happy with the results so far. My only concern is that the LFE doesn't appear to be a LFE on some of the discs. It appears to be a full range channel. I wonder if somehow I managed to switch the LFE and the center.

Seth

 

[Seth_L]

Well... I checked it. It's definitely wired correcly. I guess the .1 isn't a LFE on most of the discs. Of the 3 5.1 discs I have none of them seem to have any sort of limit to how high the LFE goes. The two Telarc discs are worse than the Celine Dion one, but even the Celine one doesn't seem to have only bass in the LFE.

Seth

 

[Mike C F]

I have no idea about the Celine Dion, but I do know that Telarc believes the .1 channel is better used as a center middle (above the listener) for the surround experience...at least on some recordings. I don't know how universal that use is.

I play all my SACD's and CD's from my C555ES to my DA5ES in multi input (ananlog direct). What disc should I use to see that I'm getting all the frequencies reproduced at the proper volume? Do i need separate CD and SACD test discs? I can't find a SACD disc with test tones and frequency sweeps. The Telarc discs only have pink noise tones for all the channels. I don't believe they do a frequency sweep at all.

Anybody know what I want?

Mike

 

[Dan Joy]

Seth, Sony told me that the way sacd is recorded that due to the extended high range frequency SACD offers, there is less in the lower end in 2channel (possibly why we have to boost bass level if use 2 channel + sub on player). I agree that there are higher frequencies in LFE on multi vs all else. SACD multichannel recordings are just independently varied in .1 usage. Take for instance In the Flesh, an awful sounding 5.0 sacd that also list 5.1 recording on the back of the cd. If I use bass mismanagement on player, I loose an extraordinary amount of bass on fronts and get week sub out put
I think I will just stay with multidirect and be thankful I have tower fronts, But now I must get better lower in wall surrounds (as the wife starts to build my new dog house )

 

[Seth_L]

Dan,

My plan is to revert to something similar to my old setup. I'm going to take the pre-amp out for L+R (on the back of the DA5ES) run it through a low-pass (crossover) and create my own LFE from the front two channels. Seeing as the .1 isn't a LFE for a lot of discs and we know how most unit's bass mis-managment works (or rather doesn't). This should give me a fair amount of bass without screwing it all up.

I'll use some sort of inline switching so I can change the sub back to the .1 from the reciever for DD and DTS.

Seth

 

[Dan Joy]

Let us know how it works!

 

[TomCW]

I have put together a simple analog bass manager.
Look in the DIY forum for more info.
T
Analog Bass Manager

 

[Thomas Smailus]

Ah, Sony, what has happend to your website? I remember, about 2 years ago, I picked up a display cordless spread spectrum phone from a local CompUSA 'as is' - went to the Sony website - which eventually got me the the SEL website where I found not only the PDF of the owners manual but a plethora of information and specs and docs and whatnot on what seemed like the whole range of Sony products. Recent visits to the Sony website have revealed that its a total disaster with practically no usable information on it at all. You cannot find anything other than some 'relatively new' products - but no information thats not also on retailer websites - and as seen, the newest products are not even there. You can find practically NO information on any older products at all. Just try doing a search for a model number on the main sony site. This is the very basic functionality the site SHOULD provide, that I can go to www.sony.com key in the complete model number and be given a website which has all the docs, notices, parts, etc about this unit.