D-VHS Lower the price already!!! (2 Viewers)

[Gregg Loewen]

PS:

Michael P (or others in New England), if you want to see D-VHS in action shoot me an email. It will drop your jaw.

Gregg

 

[Damin J Toell]

almost anything I'd be interested in rcording off hdtv is currently available on dvd.

It's not "currently available on dvd" in HD resolution, however, which pretty much the whole point.

DJ

 

[John_Berger]

Guys, its not about niche markets, its about test markets.

But aren't niche markets started by being test markets that end up being just popular enough to keep going?

 

[Gregg Loewen]

Not in this case. Perhaps market is the wrong word. A better choice would be test format. If the encryption is cracked, HD is doomed.

 

[Michael P]

I guess the question is do HDvcr's improve the viewing experience enough to justify a complete change of format, and at what price do they? If and when they hit that level then people will switch. I'm just not sure they can ever hit that level for a large number of people. Thats not to say they wont for me. And Greg thanks very much for the invite. And this is my 100th post WOOHOO!!

 

[Gregg Loewen]

I guess the question is do HDvcr's improve the viewing experience enough to justify a complete change of format, and at what price do they

In my opinion, HUGE IMPROVEMENT. Price point is somewhat meaningly.

This format is not meant for a large audience.

 

[Eric F]

Gregg, nobody doubts the quality of the format, I'm sure it looks much better than standard HDTV, but it's the longevity that's in question. (I would love to see it myself, but I suspect I live too far from you, here in the Boston area).

The real question is just how much software will be available and at what price point. It's catch-22. If the price-point remains high, then there will never be enough units sold to encourage more software produced. If there isn't enough software available, the demand for hardware won't be very high.

 

[RobertR]

I'm sure it looks much better than standard HDTV

I think you may have misspoke, Eric. D-VHS does NOT look "much better than standard HDTV". It IS HDTV. What it IS capable of looking much better than is standard DVD.

 

[James Zubb]

I was at the DTheater demo at Widescreenreview's office today.

Let me first say that my home theater sucks now, if I only had $300k+...

To me the improvement of the DTheater films over the DVD was not as amazing as I had expected (viewed clips of U-571, X-Men, End of Days, T2, and Galaxy Quest). Detail and sound were improved, but not dramatically. Video source material was mind blowing better (viewed Motley Crue vid, HDNet's Bikini Destinations and War on Terrorism, and Jay Leno taped on Friday).

My biggest surprises:
1.There is a simple chapter stop menu, just like DVD (actually it is the same chapters as the dvd), it is not instant access, but not as difficult as I had imagined it would be.
2. Zero glitches. These were tapes they said had played to 4 previous sessions, and I would assume for there own uses. Granted they could have thrown a new tape in without anyone knowing.
3. The sound improved. I never even thought about this as a benefit, but the sound is at a higher bitrate. They were talking about DTS tapes at full bitrate coming soon (1.5 mb? I forget).

I wouldn't buy it at the current price point. I would buy if the deck were to come down to $500. Something I just thought of, the demo used a Sony 9000ES DVD player. That is a $1000 player so the actual price/performance of DTheater may be better that I thought.

OT: We also watched a clip from Monsters Inc DVD as a demo of CRT vs DLP projectors black reproduction, looked gorgeous.

 

[Bryant Trew]

George Kaplan, semantics... just semantics

bottom line: there WILL BE a bunch of people who will have the same complain as your bunch's complaints. Happy?

Yes, we call them the mass market. People who don't spend $1,500 on a DVD player, don't own HDTV and haven't a real clue about what high performance home theatre is. Exclude them and it would be a niche product, wouldn't it? But this time the niche players would be happy with the format.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

I was at the DTheater demo at Widescreenreview's office today.

Let me first say that my home theater sucks now, if I only had $300k+...

To me the improvement of the DTheater films over the DVD was not as amazing as I had expected (viewed clips of U-571, X-Men, End of Days, T2, and Galaxy Quest). Detail and sound were improved, but not dramatically. Video source material was mind blowing better (viewed Motley Crue vid, HDNet's Bikini Destinations and War on Terrorism, and Jay Leno taped on Friday).

James-

Do you know whether or not WSR disconnected their $20,000.00 Faroudja scaler from the DVD player for this demo? When I went to the first WSR D-Theater Festival, they had the scaler connected and indicated that they were considering disconnecting it for future sessions in order to provide a more accurate comparison.

I still noticed a great deal of improvement in detail and color fidelity in the D-Theater tapes over the DVD's even with the $20k scaler hooked up!

I completely agree that the HD Video based material blows everything else away! "Mind blowing" is the term you used, and it is definitely accurate! Makes me wish that studios would start using HD Video cameras to make movies (little chance of that happening, I know)!

You also raise a good point about the fact that WSR is using a $1000.00 DVD player in these comparisons. That, combined with the $20,000.00 scaler, makes the JVC unit look like a real bargain even at full retail!

So far, I am not aware of a single person who has attended the WSR Festival who has noticed a single glitch in any of these tapes, and your observations in that regard are consistent with those expressed by others here and at AVSForum who have attended the WSR D-Theater Festival.

 

[RobertR]

You also raise a good point about the fact that WSR is using a $1000.00 DVD player in these comparisons. That, combined with the $20,000.00 scaler, makes the JVC unit look like a real bargain even at full retail!

Problem is, Rob, that you can achieve picture quality that easily matches or EXCEEDS the quality of that $1,000 player/$20,000 Faroudja combination with a sub-$500 HTPC (see Vince Maskeeper's review of the Theatertek player in the HTPC section for more details). I know for a fact that a Sony G90 owner SOLD his Faroudja 5000 after seeing what HTPC looked like on his G90. WSR (or almost any other home theater magazine, for that matter) won't talk much about HTPCs, since they make it unnecessary to spend money on the kind of multi-kilobuck, big profit margin scalers that industry types would be happy having people buy. In fact, the only detailed review I've seen of an HTPC was in The Perfect Vision.

All of this really kills the "bargain" argument. You can easily achieve or exceed what WSR does with their $21,000+ setup for half the cost of the JVC player.

None of this is meant to imply that DVHS isn't an improvement over DVD. It is (I've seen some SUPERB DVHS stuff at Brian Wiklem's house). But I have to agree with James. I was at the WSR demo, and it wasn't a "knock your socks off" difference. And DVHS is subject to transfer variability just like any other format. I thought the ID4 demo looked downright SOFT, definitely not worth having over the DVD.

I've tried to focus purely on cost and technical performance in this post, rather than debate the merits of tape.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

I've tried to focus purely on cost and technical performance in this post, rather than debate the merits of tape.

Yes! And you did a great job at it too! Very refreshing!

 

[David Susilo]

The HTPC at $500 already includes built-in DVD player, just FYI

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Well, thats what I get for trying to compare the JVC to something I am not familiar with! :b

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

I would add that you can also record HD with a HTPC. I don't think you can record the 5.1 audio stream though. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I would like to see a D-VHS player in action though. Does anyone know of a place here in Denver that has one running?

 

[RobertR]

you did a great job at it too! Very refreshing!

Thanks Rob.

 

[Eric F]

I think you may have misspoke, Eric. D-VHS does NOT look "much better than standard HDTV". It IS HDTV. What it IS capable of looking much better than is standard DVD.

Robert: I meant the D-Theater software looks better than standard HDTV broadcasts because of the higher bandwidth of D-VHS. This has already been established.
Jason: I own a Hauppauge WinTV-HD, and it saves the entire ATSC transport stream to your harddrive. DD 5.1, multicasts, everything. It doesn't discriminate.
Just as an aside, I have to say; Shame on Hauppauge for not supporting this $400 piece of hardware. The software is a joke and I'm sorry I ever bought it. I'll never purchase another Hauppauge product again.
I feel better now.

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

Eric: Thanks, I wasn't too sure. I still haven't gone with an HD tuner in my HTPC yet. Was waiting for them to go down in price as well. I think I might stay away from the Hauppauge though.

 

[RobertR]

I meant the D-Theater software looks better than standard HDTV broadcasts because of the higher bandwidth of D-VHS

Eric: Based on what I've seen on my own system and at Brian's house and at WSR, I'm not sure I agree. DVHS looks very nice, but I've seen outstanding stuff on HDNet, HBO-HD, and PBS.