custom adire kit 281...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by eric, Apr 17, 2002.

  1. eric

    eric Agent

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    hi, im new here. i dont care for this username restriction stuff, but i figured what the heck...ill register this time. anyway, i have an offer for anyone who would like to join in.

    tim (from soundillusions.net) and i are talking about approaching dan wiggins for a bipole/dipole (or maybe tripole instead) speaker design using the kit281 as a base. im not sure of the specifics, but they will hopefully be worked out in short order.

    if anyone else is interested in this, IM me or PM me or something, and ill check with dan. ill wait a couple weeks or so tho for anyone else who might be interested in the bipole/dipole/tripole design.

    as for prices, i believe its 300 for the design and 1 crossover (i believe parts are included) and 75 for each additional xover pair, but i think that there's gonna be at least 2 of us, so it will be 187.50 for just 2 of us...and then it drops for everyone else who joins in.

    suggestions are fine, if you want something in there/not in there...but only if youre serious about getting in on this.

    eric
     
  2. Bill Catherall

    Bill Catherall Screenwriter

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    One question...if we're paying for the design, who owns it? If we (who paid for it) own it then Dan wouldn't be able to post it on Adire's website for sale or distribution. If he owns it then why should we have to pay for it?

    I don't see why Adire can't just design it at their own expense, patent or copyright the crossover design (if possible) and sell the crossover. Do they not expect a big enough demand?

    Also, in relation to design "ownership." If we all pay for it (and then own it), what's to stop any one of us from posting the design on a website for free distribution?
     
  3. Tim Hood

    Tim Hood Agent

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    I'm the Tim that's going in on this...

    Bill, these are the types of questions we are looking for when we contact Dan.

    We aren't placing an order just yet. We want to find out if anyone else is interested, and if so, what questions they may have.

    Tim
     
  4. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    You guys are a riot, either that or lawyers......

    Dan Wiggins is one of the nicest guys in audio today, and you're freaking out about who's going to own a design?

    Don't know Dan very well do you?
     
  5. Bill Catherall

    Bill Catherall Screenwriter

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    Thomas - Personally, I'm not "freaking out." I know Dan is a very nice guy. It's just that, it sounds like Dan has already been approached and responded with a price. I'm just trying to find out how this whole $300 for a design thing works.

    I mean...why the $300? What would my money be going to and what makes it worth it if I could get the design for free later on, or just pay for prebuilt crossovers with out an additional design fee?
     
  6. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Don't know anything about $300.
    Anytime anyone I know that has ask Dan for assistance it's been free.
    Now if there has been a request for a custom design, the man should be paid for his time. I seriously doubt that he'd both charge for the design and be too concern about the 'rights' to it. After all no one is going to make a ton of money off a 281 bipole design. (no offense Dan [​IMG])
    Seems funny to me that people can't come up with their own bipole design. Everything's already posted on the Adire site. A speaker containing 2-281's isn't exactly rocket science. If a single XO is desired then adjust the values for the different impedance
     
  7. eric

    eric Agent

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  8. Bill Catherall

    Bill Catherall Screenwriter

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    It seems that everybody in America these days is sue happy. And with such litigious people running around it's probably a good idea to make all claims clear, no matter how nice you are. It's unfortunate, but true.

    I used to work in a t-shirt printing plant. We had artists who would do custom art for people that couldn't draw their own designs. If the customer didn't pay for the art work then we owned it and had the right to reuse any or all of it for other customers. If the customer paid for the art (basically paying for the artist's time) then they owned it and, although we kept the art in-house for reprinting, we had no legal right to use that art on any other customers' orders. Pretty easy to do with art, because there's literally endless possibilities for designs.

    But with crossovers, how many different circuits are there that will sound exactly the same with the exact same driver configuration? I don't know anything about crossover design, but I'm guessing there's a pretty small number of combinations. And once you've got one design nailed that works perfectly, why go through all the work of reinventing the wheel when another customer asks for the same custom design? So I'm kind of confused about how such an issue would be handled. How do you keep out lawsuits? Unfortunately just being nice doesn't work. Everything must be clearly defined.

    I agree that Dan should be adequately compensated for the work that he does. Eric said that the $300 is for 1 person. Don't things change once more people get in on it? If there's enough demand then R&D costs can just be absorbed by the retail profits. Clear definition of rights goes both ways and serves to protect the designer as much as it does the buyer (or buyers).
     
  9. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

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  10. Tim Hood

    Tim Hood Agent

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    LOL...

    Us guys? Who is us guys?

    This forum is so funny, I swear...I've never seen a forum, where any topic can be turned into a pissing match.

    Perhaps that's why there is a disclaimer on this forum?

    Look fella's, this isn't a battle of wits, nor a question of anyone's intelligence.

    Don't go assuming that just because Eric and I are new posters to this forum, that we haven't lurked here, or especially that we don't know Dan that well.

    As good as this forum is, Dan does frequent other forums.

    We are looking at something custom. We want him (Adire) to do the research, I don't have the time, nor the experience, and I trust Dan. Honestly, for something built and designed by Adire, I'm not afraid to pay the money.

    All we are asking for, is if there is anyone else interested in the design. If someone expects Eric and I to pay for the design and then just post it on a website to show all...well, they'll be disappointed. As far as I'm concerned, everyone who pays the money will get a pair. Those who want to post the design may do so. Should Adire want to sue for something, that's their problem. I don't really care.

    So, to some it up, and hopefully not turn this thread into another pissing match, for those interested in paying for a custom designed bi/di/tri/??? speaker, shoot us an email.

    In the mean time, you fella's might think your little arguments are civil, but they are really unnecessary, and aren't doing anything but instigating more arguments.

    Tim
     
  11. eric

    eric Agent

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    just to make sure everyone is on the same page, this design will have 2 8's and 2 tweets per speaker. miscommunication is a VERY bad thing. [​IMG]
    eric
     
  12. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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  13. Tim Hood

    Tim Hood Agent

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    Wow...

    Who is us guys?

    I know this forum has strict regulations about spamming...

    Eric and I are not resellers...we're not looking for any type of profit. We are only looking to cut our costs. I frequent this forum, and thought some people might be interested.

    I don't care what other people want to do with their designs. That's not my business. As soon as someone else pays for their share, its their's.

    Those who go in with us, will get letters directly from Dan (or any engineer at Adire), and they will know the prices going in. This isn't a mark up game.

    I feel like I'm being put on the defensive throughout this thread. As if we have a hidden agenda, and we are immediately bad people?

    Tim
     

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