Critical discussion Thread: Your thoughts on Kino-Lorber Blu-rays

Robin9

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Last night I watched the Blu-ray disc of The Great Train Robbery. I loved this film when it first came out and I haven't changed my opinion at all. I still can't quite believe that Sean Connery really did that sequence on the roof of the train. Surely it was a stunt double with a Sean Connery mask on?

Kino Lorber's disc is really good and captures the look of Geoffrey Unsworth's cinematography very well. The only very slight reservation I have about this disc is that the dialog seems quiet compared with the sound effects, Jerry Goldsmith's superb score and MGM's lion's roar. I don't remember it being like that when I first saw the film but that was a long, long time ago. This disc really does present the music well: anyone proud of their home cinema's audio capability should use this disc to give their system a work-out!

Oh, a second slight reservation: the original British title is better: The First Great Train Robbery.
 
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Stephen PI

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Stephen PI said:
MisterLime.......Is there any chance of the audio getting corrected on "Curse of the Faceless Man"?
There's nothing wrong with the audio, it was a low budget film and the sound/SFX were mixed in poorly - the minor issue is source.

MisterLime......Thank you for your speedy reply. However, I find this reply difficult to respond to with the risk of offending you and being thrown off the board!
I have to say that I strongly disagree with you.
I have an audio background. I used to work in qc for Disney. I am now retired.
I don't know if you represent MGM or Kino.
I also don't know what your experience is with audio, so I don't know if I've put you in a difficult position by confronting you with this issue on a public forum and don't wish to admit to what is clearly a mistake missed by the quality control team.
There is definitely a problem with the audio on the blu ray.
I have heard this problem before.
Somebody either with MGM or Kino has summed or combined the composite mono track with the music and effects track, which are normally both on the video master. The tracks are slightly out of sync with each other so you don't get phasing, instead you get a repeat of the music and effects creating an echo in the track. The dialog remains unaffected obviously because it is not on the m&e track.
I have a HD transmission saved and their is nothing wrong with the audio track. I just re-checked it.
I am happy with the picture quality and with several past titles that Kino has released which had superb video quality such as "THE SATAN BUG" and "MAN WITH THE X-RAY EYES" and eagerly await delivery of "PANIC IN YEAR ZERO".
Regards,
 
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John Sparks

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Good luck with that one.
 

Stephen PI

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Kino Lorber's disc is really good and captures the look of Geoffrey Unsworth's cinematography very well. The only very slight reservation I have about this disc is that the dialog seems quiet compared with the sound effects, Jerry Goldsmith's superb score and MGM's lion's roar. I don't remember it being like that when I first saw the film but that was a long, long time ago.
If you are correct about the dialog, the only way that could happen is if MGM had either a mono track with separate dialog, music and effects or in the case of stereo (which might have been Dolby Stereo in 1979, can't remember without checking) separate 4-track dialog, music and effects stems.
They should all have reference tones for level on all the masters so it would be easy to change levels for whatever reason.
 
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Stephen PI

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More sync problems - http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/70341/gunfight-at-dodge-city-the/


This really needs addressing BEFORE the discs are released.
The issue of sound synchronization is a problem.
When I worked for Disney in QC, more often than not I would fail a language for sync issues. I would complete a report mark it as a FAIL and then I would request a move of the audio, late or early, by so many frames. We had instruments at our disposal to move the audio to calculate how far it was out of sync plus we had to take into account the video monitor which affected the sound by one or two frames that would have affected how we judged synchronization
If the entire film was out by the same amount it was relatively easy to request a global move.
But there is the case where sections of soundtrack are out by different frame amounts. In this case I would fail it and request the track to be re-conformed.
The basic origin of these problems lies with the delivery of the video master from the authoring house. The master has an English 'guide track' which represents the domestic NTSC US release (There is also an equivalent PAL version also).
Whatever state the soundtrack is in, sync-wise, that is the 'Bible' and all languages, multiple English and any NTSC foreign speaking territories (eg. French Canadian, Japanese) are matched to it..
The soundtrack on the video master does not represent how the track was laid on the theatrical projection print, but is due to a technician's interpretation of what he thinks is in sync. There are picture and sound references to synchronize the two but it more than often didn't work successfully.
The sound editors are normally required to conform and 'phase' all the various language soundtracks in pro-tools to the guide track and then check for any bad sync issues.
When it came to my department I had to play every language from beginning to end for all sorts of issues, not just sync, and often I would be watching the same film over and over all day and often the day after!
We did have a second crew plus a night shift when it got busy.
During my years at Disney we generally had to be flexible with regard to sync. Traditionally it is harder to see a soundtrack that is late rather than early so we would PASS any track that was up to one frame early and up to two frames late. One of the reasons for this is that it is difficult for some of the authoring houses to move one or two frames earlier or later.
I tried to come up with the idea of qc'ing the English audio on the video masters as they came in, but for some reason it wasn't possible.
Before I retired I spent some time working on pro-tools, the editing system, and I always made it a rule to fit all the sound to the picture and ignore the 'guide' soundtrack.
Since I retired, the technology has advanced dramatically and some issues mentioned above, I thought, didn't exist any longer, but it appears it doesn't seem that way.
 
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phillyrobt

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A review lists laugh tracks on some episodes of the Depatie/Freleng releases...is this true and can this be changed? Thanks!
 

Konstantinos

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A review lists laugh tracks on some episodes of the Depatie/Freleng releases...is this true and can this be changed? Thanks!
if they could release laugh free tracks, i'm sure they would have done it already. This was the same in the previously released DVDs.
i would guess that the original audio has been lost or something. But i don't mind at all the laugh tracks.

One thing i'd like to ask:
there are reports of an Aardvark episode ("Don't Hustle and Ant with Muscle") where the laugh track is only heard from the left channel.
This is not the case in the DVD.
So, is this an error and could it be corrected?
 
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Stephen PI

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More sync problems - http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/70341/gunfight-at-dodge-city-the/


This really needs addressing BEFORE the discs are released.
James, I watched this disc this evening and according to my calculations (my tv adds about a frame of video delay and have compensated for it) the audio is about two frames early, which would have been a FAIL had I qc'd it.
I believe in many cases some of these titles are only spot checked, instead of watching from start to finish, and this is how sometimes it gets missed. Plus seeing sync, accurately, comes with years of experience. You either have the gift or you don't.
 

John Sparks

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...and I thought this "THREAD" was dead!
 
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battlebeast

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I just got Kino's The Ox-Bow Incident, and while I'm sure it will be an amazing transfer, I am dissappointed with the ramble on the backside.

First, Harry Morgan's name was misspelled ("Morhan"). Secondly, all the actor's obligatory credits listed were way off the mark. And speaking of Harry Morgan (then Known as "Henry Morgan") was more well known for M*A*S*H Than Dragnet.

Yellow Sky is William Wellman's best known movie? Not Wings, A Star Is Born, or even The High and the Mighty?

And Anthony Quinn... they could have picked Lawrence of Arabia, Viva Zapata! or even Lust for Life, but they instead picked the obscure Across 110th St? And Dana Andrews... Boomerang? Not The Best Years of Our Lives?

This might seem nitpicky, I know, but to me, it's on the unprofessional side, especially getting a actor's name wrong.
 

ahollis

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I just got Kino's The Ox-Bow Incident, and while I'm sure it will be an amazing transfer, I am dissappointed with the ramble on the backside.

First, Harry Morgan's name was misspelled ("Morhan"). Secondly, all the actor's obligatory credits listed were way off the mark. And speaking of Harry Morgan (then Known as "Henry Morgan") was more well known for M*A*S*H Than Dragnet.

Yellow Sky is William Wellman's best known movie? Not Wings, A Star Is Born, or even The High and the Mighty?

And Anthony Quinn... they could have picked Lawrence of Arabia, Viva Zapata! or even Lust for Life, but they instead picked the obscure Across 110th St? And Dana Andrews... Boomerang? Not The Best Years of Our Lives?

This might seem nitpicky, I know, but to me, it's on the unprofessional side, especially getting a actor's name wrong.
Perfect example of in house promotion. I actually have to give them a hand.
 

Dick

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With a new Fox deal in place, I am hoping we will see such classics as THE HEIRESS, DECISION BEFORE DAWN, THE BLACK SWAN, LIFEBOAT, NIGHTMARE ALLEY, THE SNAKE PIT, UNFAITHFULLY YOURS (might be from Criterion), FIVE FINGERS, THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN (HAMMER), GIGOT, etc.
 

dpippel

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A HUGE yes for The Abominable Snowman! One of Hammer's best IMO and it's in sore need of a quality release.
 

Thomas T

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With a new Fox deal in place, I am hoping we will see such classics as THE HEIRESS, DECISION BEFORE DAWN, THE BLACK SWAN, LIFEBOAT, NIGHTMARE ALLEY, THE SNAKE PIT, UNFAITHFULLY YOURS (might be from Criterion), FIVE FINGERS, THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN (HAMMER), GIGOT, etc.
The Heiress is part of Universal's Paramount catalog. I stand to be corrected but I don't think Kino Lorber has a license agreement with Universal.
 

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With a new Fox deal in place, I am hoping we will see such classics as THE HEIRESS, DECISION BEFORE DAWN, THE BLACK SWAN, LIFEBOAT, NIGHTMARE ALLEY, THE SNAKE PIT, UNFAITHFULLY YOURS (might be from Criterion), FIVE FINGERS, THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN (HAMMER), GIGOT, etc.
I'd buy some of those!

THE SNAKE PIT, HEIRESS, DECISION.
 

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