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Richard M S

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The Studio Canal Tales of Hoffmann disc is a stunner, however, it is still missing approx. 5 minutes from the original 138 running time which did not include the cast/epilogue. SC restoration team at the time stated that
"we did not find everything." See the discussion on this site at the time of the British Blu release.
There was footage that was deleted from, and then restored to, the third act of the opera. I don't know if that was restored to the British blu-ray.

However the fun "end credits" sequence was either shown just once or never shown at all; I don't recall. However I do specifically remember Thelma Schoonmaker saying the vault which held the footage thought it so non-essential they did not want to give it to her, whereas she made it clear she was not leaving without it.
 

Capt D McMars

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I have been waiting for this version with the newly-discovered footage for years. My guess is this is the same version Thelma Schoonmaker introduced and discussed at the Walter Reade 5-10 years ago.

This blu-ray is an absolute Day 1 purchase for me.
I loved their restoration of Red Shoes and have been looking forward to this title as well!!
 

david hare

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david hare
This restoration originally released by Canal a few years ago is by the Film Foundation and other stakeholders with input from Warner MPI It represents the most complete restoration ever made of the film and includes the incredible "Bows from the cast" sequence at the end which was never even used for release prints including even the first screening at the Venice FF in 1951 where ot played at 137 minutes for the only time in its existence. It is as complete at it will ever get and there is a link somewhere here and elsewhere from a poster who documented that there remains three small cuts, the longest probably another aria from the third act and a reprise of the a chorus from the Kleinzach song in the epilogue. Criterion is using exactly the same restoration and contrary to what some people are saying (elsewhere at that hell hole HTF) there is no contractual obligation exercised by Canal over Criterion not to release this as a UHD - they have done so with both Mulholland Drive and Le Cercle Rouge both of which were released on Canal UHD prior to Criterion's UHD discs of the same masters.

There will never be another "more complete" restoration of Hoffmann because the missing three cuts totaling about four minutes have never been found. The footage is long gone, This FF/Schoonmaker restoration is flawless and I am getting sick and tired of this constant whining about how it is "not complete". This is so insulting to the tireless work of Schoonmaer and FF and the large professional team who spent years scouring the vaults and putting in a massive labor of love to bring the title back to its i9deal state. It's as complete as it can ever be.
 

RobertMG

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The Studio Canal Tales of Hoffmann disc is a stunner, however, it is still missing approx. 5 minutes from the original 138 running time which did not include the cast/epilogue. SC restoration team at the time stated that
"we did not find everything." See the discussion on this site at the time of the British Blu release.
Was just thinking about this a week ago --- for some reason WPIX TV in NYC used to air this film every New Year's Eve/morning 12 midnight or 1am that was of course b4 their now famous Honeymooners Marathon
 

ABaglivi

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Anthony
This restoration originally released by Canal a few years ago is by the Film Foundation and other stakeholders with input from Warner MPI It represents the most complete restoration ever made of the film and includes the incredible "Bows from the cast" sequence at the end which was never even used for release prints including even the first screening at the Venice FF in 1951 where ot played at 137 minutes for the only time in its existence. It is as complete at it will ever get and there is a link somewhere here and elsewhere from a poster who documented that there remains three small cuts, the longest probably another aria from the third act and a reprise of the a chorus from the Kleinzach song in the epilogue. Criterion is using exactly the same restoration and contrary to what some people are saying (elsewhere at that hell hole HTF) there is no contractual obligation exercised by Canal over Criterion not to release this as a UHD - they have done so with both Mulholland Drive and Le Cercle Rouge both of which were released on Canal UHD prior to Criterion's UHD discs of the same masters.

There will never be another "more complete" restoration of Hoffmann because the missing three cuts totaling about four minutes have never been found. The footage is long gone, This FF/Schoonmaker restoration is flawless and I am getting sick and tired of this constant whining about how it is "not complete". This is so insulting to the tireless work of Schoonmaer and FF and the large professional team who spent years scouring the vaults and putting in a massive labor of love to bring the title back to its i9deal state. It's as complete as it can ever be.
David, I agree with most of what you say. However, the missing footage exists in 16mm and would make an interesting bonus/appendage to the new Criterion release. If you remember, we had this all out when the SC was originally released. PS: I doubt that TM or MS have ever seen the cuts which Powell himself discussed. There are only two: in the Prologue and in the Olympia act (an aria "sung" by Pamela Brown).
 

david hare

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I know you are very familiar indeed with the movie Anthony. I was first aware of it in the 60s as a filmie teenager when it (along with Murder at the Vanities) was still one of those Holy Grail movies only a few demented cinephiles and Opera Queens knew about and there were occasional clandestine screenings then of a 16mm cirulating rom Melbourne which were always very private. I gather that was the cut version. I finally saw it for the first time in NYC (as I best recall) 1982 at a semi "closed" but public screening without advertising in a tine Village screeening room. It was on a double with Luna de Miel/Honeymoon (which is pretty awful) and the print I am pretty certain was Scorsese's personal 16mm. It was stunning,. They had to pick me up off the floor after watching it, in fact I stayed (and sat through the terrible Luna) for a second viewing so I could take it all in. It was very definitely the then current 126 minute version. Although I have no doubts there may have been 16mm prints elsewhere which were complete I am not aware of any that were ever found or tracked down, not even when FF and Thelma et al were doing their two year research/harvest through the BFI vaults (where they found all of the current material including an unmarked reel with the Applause epilogue. I Understand Scorsese also has/had a 35 IB print and this was almost certainly what Criterion used for their Laserdisc of the movie released (three sided last side CAV) in 96 or 97. That was also the 126 minute cut and there were some notes describing the original Venice 1951 cut on the gatefold. That was also gorgeous and had the same color grading and palette. Some years later ca. 2000 Canal released a DVD of it in the UK which was also the 126 cut (obviously still then) but had a hideous completely wrong color grading with purples and crimsons going stoplight red, and worse Cherina's and Helpmann's makeup and eyeyliner had become hideous lime green where they were originally turquoise. Ludmilla's lippy was also some pale pink. It was awful. I had that too. Then the restoration came along with essentially everything in the harvest coming from BFI plus MS's personal IB 35mm for reference. I would love to knwo where and if any other 16mm prints still exist with the missing three minutes.
 

AnthonyClarke

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The 60s were a strange time for cinephiles, demented or not!
I remember in Melbourne (and David, you would have seen the same print) the screenings of Bunuel's wonderful 'Un Chien Andalou'. Wonderful ... except in London in 1969 I finally managed to see the even more wonderful 'sonorised' version complete with tangos and liebestods.
The mad woman who owned the Australian exhibition rights refused to shell out for the superior sound version. Still, we saw those images, which forever linger ......
 

ABaglivi

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Anthony
I know you are very familiar indeed with the movie Anthony. I was first aware of it in the 60s as a filmie teenager when it (along with Murder at the Vanities) was still one of those Holy Grail movies only a few demented cinephiles and Opera Queens knew about and there were occasional clandestine screenings then of a 16mm cirulating rom Melbourne which were always very private. I gather that was the cut version. I finally saw it for the first time in NYC (as I best recall) 1982 at a semi "closed" but public screening without advertising in a tine Village screeening room. It was on a double with Luna de Miel/Honeymoon (which is pretty awful) and the print I am pretty certain was Scorsese's personal 16mm. It was stunning,. They had to pick me up off the floor after watching it, in fact I stayed (and sat through the terrible Luna) for a second viewing so I could take it all in. It was very definitely the then current 126 minute version. Although I have no doubts there may have been 16mm prints elsewhere which were complete I am not aware of any that were ever found or tracked down, not even when FF and Thelma et al were doing their two year research/harvest through the BFI vaults (where they found all of the current material including an unmarked reel with the Applause epilogue. I Understand Scorsese also has/had a 35 IB print and this was almost certainly what Criterion used for their Laserdisc of the movie released (three sided last side CAV) in 96 or 97. That was also the 126 minute cut and there were some notes describing the original Venice 1951 cut on the gatefold. That was also gorgeous and had the same color grading and palette. Some years later ca. 2000 Canal released a DVD of it in the UK which was also the 126 cut (obviously still then) but had a hideous completely wrong color grading with purples and crimsons going stoplight red, and worse Cherina's and Helpmann's makeup and eyeyliner had become hideous lime green where they were originally turquoise. Ludmilla's lippy was also some pale pink. It was awful. I had that too. Then the restoration came along with essentially everything in the harvest coming from BFI plus MS's personal IB 35mm for reference. I would love to knwo where and if any other 16mm prints still exist with the missing three minutes.
David thank you for your response. I spent a lifetime patching together Eastman, IB, and Kodachrome footage. I assembled a complete print that coincided with the original running time and the soundtrack recording for Decca. I hope some day the missing footage will be discovered in 35mm. Until then, Pax.
 

AnthonyClarke

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What a lifetime! It's great to be so involved in what we love.
I had thought carelessly that David was talking to me, although we hadn't been talking in the recent past about 'Tales of Hoffman'. But since David and I have known each other for almost 60 years, it was an understandable slip into early dementia.....
So hard to keep things in order since so many of us are now nudging post-middle-age territory!
 

PMF

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Philip
[…]
This FF/Schoonmaker restoration is flawless and I am getting sick and tired of this constant whining about how it is "not complete". This is so insulting to the tireless work of Schoonmaer and FF and the large professional team who spent years scouring the vaults and putting in a massive labor of love to bring the title back to its i9deal state. It's as complete as it can ever be.
My only whining is that I have to wait until June 7th. Excellent Post from David Hare.:thumbs-up-smiley:
 
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moviepas

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Apr 13, 2011
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The 60s were a strange time for cinephiles, demented or not!
I remember in Melbourne (and David, you would have seen the same print) the screenings of Bunuel's wonderful 'Un Chien Andalou'. Wonderful ... except in London in 1969 I finally managed to see the even more wonderful 'sonorised' version complete with tangos and liebestods.
The mad woman who owned the Australian exhibition rights refused to shell out for the superior sound version. Still, we saw those images, which forever linger ......
Does the mad woman have a name? Thanks
 

Capt D McMars

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What a lifetime! It's great to be so involved in what we love.
I had thought carelessly that David was talking to me, although we hadn't been talking in the recent past about 'Tales of Hoffman'. But since David and I have known each other for almost 60 years, it was an understandable slip into early dementia.....
So hard to keep things in order since so many of us are now nudging post-middle-age territory!
I remember when I was in my early 30s and my father said to me, One day a woke up and looked in the mirror and said "who is that old man?" The older I get, the more I understand the story and laugh, loving the memory of that story he told. Having something that you love to do to collect ot be involoved with is a blessing and a curse, because no one ever gets out of here alive!! Enjoying freinds, family and those around you is enough.
 

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