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Nick*Z

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Why might one presume that this superb film, shot on 2/3 of a 35mm frame on 5251 in 1965 could be aided by a 4k presentation?

I’ll be thrilled to have it on Blu-ray.
A 4K scan of the original camera negative, even if it only arrived on home video in 1080p would likely yield more refined detail and color reproduction, wouldn't it? I wasn't suggesting a native 4K disc over a Blu-ray. I'll take the Blu.
 

Robert Harris

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A 4K scan of the original camera negative, even if it only arrived on home video in 1080p would likely yield more refined detail and color reproduction, wouldn't it? I wasn't suggesting a native 4K disc over a Blu-ray. I'll take the Blu.
I misunderstood your comment. Any proper image harvest of an OCN is now 4k (or greater), which creates a true asset.
 

Cees Alons

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A favourite of mine.

I love to buy this Blu-ray version.
(As far as the cover is concerned: I already own previous art-work.)


Cees
 

sultan of cinema

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I saw Flight of the Phoenix when it originally opened and it has always remained a favorite. I'll take the original artwork all the time. This was one of the Fox titles that was in a deal before Disney hijacked Fox. I know that other Fox titles remain (pre Disney) and am hoping one title (I'll be able to retire my DVD) Strangers When We Meet with Kirk Douglas and Kim Novak will see the light of day. I'm not certain if this will happen and was happy to acquire a nice (several years ago) a transfer of Deadfall with Michael Caine for $11.00 under Pretty Gold Productions/Intergroove/Hollywood Classics while it was available. I have heard MASH under Criterion is right around the corner also.
 

Nelson Au

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What! I can’t believe it. I did buy the import last year. But no worries, glad to see Criterion is doing this. Just surprised. I look forward to seeing this.
 

RolandL

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Criterion is zoomed in and the colors don't look right.

OK you can all flame me now.

Masters of Cinema
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Criterion
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Masters of Cinema
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Criterion
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smithbrad

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To me the colors of the Criterion look more natural. Especially, in the second picture with the plane. What appears to be white when it comes to the plane, the canopy, and the pants look white. With the Masters of Cinema their is a golden hue across everything. Now it could be that there was an original intent for there to be a golden hue, all I can say is that the Criterion looks more natural to me.
 

Robert Crawford

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Criterion is zoomed in and the colors don't look right.

OK you can all flame me now.

Masters of Cinema
View attachment 129105

Criterion
View attachment 129106

Masters of Cinema
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Criterion
View attachment 129110
It seems like we can have this similar argument with any movie filmed in color that has multiple Blu-ray releases. Hell, we have these same type of arguments when there is only one Blu-ray release versus a prior DVD release.

I rather spend my time watching Blu-rays, specifically the movie then doing video comparisons between different home video releases of the same movie.
 

Josh Steinberg

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The differences in framing between those two shots is well within the margin of error that audiences would have experienced seeing movies projected on 35mm film. These home video releases are far more precise than you’d get in any theater, which speaking for myself at least makes it a non-issue.
 

Stephen_J_H

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Why might one presume that this superb film, shot on 2/3 of a 35mm frame on 5251 in 1965 could be aided by a 4k presentation?

I’ll be thrilled to have it on Blu-ray.
There are similar comments about Criterion's Nightmare Alley [1947] being from 2K instead of a 4K master and suggestions about Disney possibly withholding a 4K master from Criterion in the Nightmare Alley [2021] thread, which begs the question, "Why does everyone think 4K will automatically make a film look better?" It won't. It won't be as bad as scaling up VHS to 4K, but still, if the resolution isn't there, why bother?
 

darkrock17

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There are similar comments about Criterion's Nightmare Alley [1947] being from 2K instead of a 4K master and suggestions about Disney possibly withholding a 4K master from Criterion in the Nightmare Alley [2021] thread, which begs the question, "Why does everyone think 4K will automatically make a film look better?" It won't. It won't be as bad as scaling up VHS to 4K, but still, if the resolution isn't there, why bother?

I'd say Kino would be part of why people think that, just look at the thread and you'll see how a lot of posters on there worship it like it was a religion.
 

sultan of cinema

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I saw this film upon it's initial release. The Masters of Cinema got it right. They are in a hot desert and I specifically remember facial sweat (more natural colors on the closeups of actors and there are a lot), instead of tones that make the picture look cooler. Exteriors on the Criterion also make the film look cooler. Criterion, for some reason had this issue with Le Piscine. The SNC blu from France I have looks like it the theatrical experience. Criterion decided on a very unnatural gold tone. Sad, because I have really looked forward to this and have it on a preorder.
 

Josh Steinberg

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I’ll withhold judgment on color until after I’ve seen the disc. I can’t speak to anyone else’s experience but what I see on a screenshot on my phone usually doesn’t match how it looks in motion on my projector, and how it looks on the projector is the thing that counts with me.
 

Robert Crawford

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I'd say Kino would be part of why people think that, just look at the thread and you'll see how a lot of posters on there worship it like it was a religion.
That’s not a fair comment towards Kino nor those that want more classic films released on 4K discs.
 

Lord Dalek

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There are similar comments about Criterion's Nightmare Alley [1947] being from 2K instead of a 4K master and suggestions about Disney possibly withholding a 4K master from Criterion in the Nightmare Alley [2021] thread, which begs the question, "Why does everyone think 4K will automatically make a film look better?" It won't. It won't be as bad as scaling up VHS to 4K, but still, if the resolution isn't there, why bother?

Except Nightmare Alley WAS transfered in 4k...which was complete and total overkill since the elements used were at least three generations removed from the neg.

As for the case of the color here, the increasingly insufferable Dr. Atanasov elected not to repost Criterion's blub on the transfer on that other site so I'm not sure who is to "blame" for the new color palette if any.
 
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smithbrad

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I'm not concerned about the color differences. Sure the differences are obvious from the two screen captures when viewed side by side. However, I don't watch films side by side. All I know is that once the film starts I'll be fine in either case.
 

Stephen_J_H

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Except Nightmare Alley WAS transfered in 4k...which was complete and total overkill since the elements used were at least three generations removed from the neg.

As for the case of the color here, the increasingly insufferable Dr. Atanasov elected not to repost Criterion's blub on the transfer on that other site so I'm not sure who is to "blame" for the new color palette if any.
It may have been harvested at 4K, but as RAH frequently says, a 4K harvest finished at 2K makes sense. You harvest at 4K to get all available resolution from the element and then master at 2K. It’s like when companies harvest large format at 6 or 8K and finish at 4K. There’s no 4K master here.
 
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Stephen_J_H

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I'm not concerned about the color differences. Sure the differences are obvious from the two screen captures when viewed side by side. However, I don't watch films side by side. All I know is that once the film starts I'll be fine in either case.
Same. I haven’t seen the MoC in motion, but I’m seeing sharpening and digital noise in the MoC caps which I don’t see in the Criterion.
 

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