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Crisis On Infinite Earths - Arrowverse Crossover 2019

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Garysb, Aug 4, 2019.

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  1. Message #141 of 200 Dec 11, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    Be aware that I was deliberately not posting spoiler-type information because I didn't want to ruin the episode but here goes.

    For me, the biggest WTF moment was when Lex Luthor wrote himself into the Vanishing Point scene in place of Superman. I was thinking, all of the Paragons have powers so what exactly is Lex Luthor going to do? Talk the Anti-Monitor to death? The other thing is, we already know that there is a Superman and Lois CW series coming our way so they're not really dead. My guess is that not everyone is dead, that when the Anti-Monitor gets defeated, that the universe will be restored and that all of the infinite universes will be merged into a single one.

    But, the one thing I predicted on Blu-ray.com was that Barry Allen (Earth 1) would not sacrifice his life that it would be the Barry Allen of Earth 90 that would sacrifice his life. There have been a few predictions that I have called very early on about certain "Flash" outcomes that have come true, including during the pilot episode of the series when I correctly predicted that the "Harrison Wells" from the pilot episode would turn out to be Eobard Thawne, the Reverse Flash.

    But, I also think that the universes of Black Lightning, Supergirl, Lucifer and the DCU shows will all be merged into a single universe, along with the Earth 1 universe.

    There is one I forgot, which is another WTF moment, probably the biggest one in the episode, Jim Corrigan convincing Oliver to take up the role as 'Spectre'. I have to say that Oliver Queen as The Spectre might be the clue to saving a lot of people who died during the Crisis destruction.
     
  2. TJPC

    TJPC Producer

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    The feed we get from Detroit has not played the Flash episode at all, and does not show it airing for the next month at least!
     
  3. Richard V

    Richard V Cinematographer

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    Wow, this was the best episode yet. Lucifer, Huntress, and WAY out of left field, Jim Corrigan/The Specter. Unbelievable, what the hell is next? Alan Scott? Lobo? Wesley Dodds? John Stewart? Hal Jordan? Guy Gardner?
     
  4. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    DCTV-Crossover_2019_Winter_045.
     
    ponset likes this.
  5. NeilO

    NeilO Producer

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    I presume that Wentworth Miller's stint on Madame Secretary limited his ability to appear in the crossover to only doing some vocal work. I am glad they worked that out. It was a nice touch.

    I watched both Crisis Aftershows last night. I was glad they identified all of the cameos. I missed a couple in Part 1. I don't think that they identified the Earth from which Black Lightning appeared either in Crisis, on Black Lightning, or on the Aftershow. That leads me to believe that once the dust settles Black Lightning may still be taking place on its own Earth, while all the rest will be unified. Anything can happen, though.
     
  6. Message #146 of 200 Dec 12, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
    Garysb

    Garysb Producer

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    If the TV show follows the comic book Crisis the 7 people left plus Oliver Queen as The Spectre will travel back to the beginning of time and defeat the Anti Monitor in the past. Maybe Oliver and/or the speedforce will take them back. The multiverse will not have been created, there will be only one Universe and one Earth. Nobody except those who went back in time will remember there ever was a multiverse. This will probably happen in the first hour or hour and a half of the 2 hour finale. The rest of the time will be spent showing us the new normal ie Supergirl has always been on Earth since there has only ever been one Earth etc. Will Jay Garrick be the first Flash and Barry's mentor? We will see. Maybe he will end up being Barry's father on new Earth. They could do anything. Whatever actually happens the last part will be all about the setup going forward. Oliver as The Spectre will probably bring Mia and friends back to 2040. Maybe Laurel and Dinah go with them.
     
  7. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    What I think is going to happen is that Oliver Queen (The Spectre) is going to play a substantial role when the Paragons defeat the Anti-Monitor, restoring the lives of those lost when Earth 1 was consumed. Oliver may end up being involved in some major way since we know that Earth 1 (Flash, Arrow, Legends, Batwoman), Earth 38 (Supergirl), Earth 28 (?) (Black Lightning) will end up getting merged into a single universe, as a means of merging all of the Arrowverse shows into a single universe. Earth 28 is where Black Lightning is from, where the comics are concerned.

    With Stargirl being the first superhero born in the post-Crisis aftermath, we'll probably get to see more heroes appear. Such as Green Lantern, Titans, Booster Gold, Doom Patrols, which may all be major 'ifs'. Titans and Lucifer make an appearance, albeit, cameo appearances, in this Crisis crossover. Personally, I'd love to see an Omega Men series or maybe even bring back the Constantine series.
     
  8. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    Based on the previews, I would say that this is pretty much guaranteed.

    I really hope they don't follow the comics on this point. Yes, it's cleaner. But it closes off so many interesting storytelling possibilities. And it rewrites the histories of all these shows we've been watching for years. It ticked me off when "The Flash" did it with Flashpoint, and it would tick me off even more here.

    Given that this is his last crossover, and given all of the buildup surrounding his death and resurrection, I would say this is a certainty.

    A couple Titans from the DC Universe show appeared in the first hour, briefly, and Lucifer had a pretty significant scene in the third hour.

    With the recently announced joint custody arrangement between DC Universe and The CW for "Stargir", I'd say that it's a near certainty that she will at least cameo in either the fourth hour or the fifth hour.
     
  9. ponset

    ponset Second Unit

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    Lots of good stuff in these 3 parts.
    Musical cues have been outstanding.
    Cameos. Dina Meyer confirms that was her voice was "Oracle" in the Ashley Scott/Huntress scene.
    Burt Ward doing his thing "Holy, Crimson Skies of Death!"
    Lucifer was my favorite. There is an Easter Egg in that scene. As they are panning over the city a billboard for "WATCHMEN" can be seen.

    Brandon Routh as Earth-96/Kingdom Come/Christopher Reeve SUPERMAN is nearly perfect.
    Despise Lex Luthor replacing him as a Paragon. Poisonous Snake, Indeed!

    Good ending for the SMALLVILLE Clark Kent and Lois Lane.
    Welling never wanted to wear the costume so I don't why people were hoping he would in the crossover.

    Man, I was surprise at how dark they went with the Earth-99 Bruce Wayne. That was bleak.
    This could easily have been what the BatFleck version could have morph into 15 years from Batman v Superman.

    Always like JONAH HEX. Earth-18 version had no scars until White Canary cut his face up.


    Scenes at the Anti-Matter Cannon room were well done.
    Bringing Black Lightning in to help was a wise choice by Pariah(Very comics accurate costume. although he
    should have purplish hair.).
    Emotional talk between Barry and Barry.
    Earth-90 Flash going out in style.

    Gets a solid 'B+' from me.
     
  10. Thomas Newton

    Thomas Newton Screenwriter

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    I think much of the point of the comic book version of Crisis was to get rid of the multiverse – to make it easier for writers to keep track of things, and pretend that everything was consistent. Of course, later they changed their minds, and put out another mega-crossover whose purpose was to re-introduce the multiverse ("eat crow, and get paid to do it").
     
  11. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    I don't have a problem with getting rid of the multi-verse -- or most of it, anyway. I just think everybody on the remaining Earth should remember what came before.
     
  12. Garysb

    Garysb Producer

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    The comic book aftermath was disjointed. Wonder Woman was forgotten having been punched back in time to the clay she was formed from before coming to man's world in the the present. Superman on the other hand continued as before, mourning Kara, until later in 1986 when he was relaunched where he never was Superboy, he was the sole survivor of Krypton and Kara never existed. Yet in 1989, Supergirl's 30th Anniversary, in a Deadman Christmas story Deadman meets the original Kara Zor-El. Here is a link to an article about this story.
    https://observationdeck.kinja.com/what-is-supergirls-greatest-moment-1792247750

    View attachment upload_2019-12-13_10-44-14.gif
     
  13. Garysb

    Garysb Producer

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    There would be an awful lot of mourning for everyone who died or who never were if everyone remembers what came before. If all the Earths are saved then the Crisis has no consequence and is meaningless. If you have refugees from other Earths on the one Earth, it would lead to a lack of resources. How do you feed, house, find jobs and money for billions of new people. I think it would be interesting for the seven to have to two sets of memories . I know Barry had that in Flashpoint but other than tell the team and Diggle what had changed, they really didn't do anything with it. What will they do with characters from old shows. Will Smallville Lois and Clark exist on the new Earth etc Will something like that even be addressed?
     
  14. Chip_HT

    Chip_HT Supporting Actor

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    Trying to condense the multiverse down into one Earth will limit the storytelling down the road, and we'll get a multiverse anyway. It's a great tool for various TV and movie properties to still be allowed to tell their own stories, but then have an option to come together.

    Now, if they condense a few Earths into one, so they don't need to have an excuse to suddenly jump to Earth-38 everytime a crossover wants to use Supergirl . . .
     
  15. Message #155 of 200 Dec 14, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
    Garysb

    Garysb Producer

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    In my opinion the two best crossovers were Crisis on Earth X and the one with the Dominators . They were also the crossovers that weren't setting up a new series. There was more interaction between the cast members between the shows and much more action. I am guessing and hoping they are saving the best for the final two hours of the current crossover. The producers and actors have talked about how difficult Crisis On Earth X was to film . I am thinking that having more interaction between the actors and perhaps filming much outdoors is just too difficult for them and so we are left with what we have gotten so far. Promoting new or potential series for Mia and Batwoman, and the new relationship between Kara and Kate to replace Oliver and Barry is too obvious. To a lesser extent there is the intro of Ryan Choi . This I don't mind as much because he is introduced as just a new character with no hint as yet of his future. I wish the crossover would just focus on the story . I understand the reason for the promotions, I just am too aware that is what they are doing and I don't like it.
    The light use of Oliver and Barry so far has also been disappointing. In this case the shows and fans seem to be at cross purposes. Fans want more, especially of Oliver since he is leaving, while the shows are preparing for his leaving and getting fans ready for the new normal Arrowverse without Oliver by reducing his participation. Still annoyed the next to last episode of "Arrow" is without Oliver.
     
  16. NeilO

    NeilO Producer

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    I pulled out my first issue of Crisis and see that Harbinger's name originally was Lyla. Lyla Michaels first appears in Arrow S1 episode 19. So, I guess they were seeding Crisis as early as the first season of Arrow.
     
  17. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't think the producers of the Arrowverse had any idea they would be adapting any of the "event storyarcs" that happened in the comics. The thing of it is, I don't think they started to seriously consider it until Barry Allen / The Flash was introduced. I'd been stating, ever since the pilot episode was released online, months in advance of the TV series, that the newspaper article that was shown at the end of the pilot episode was a reference to Crisis on Infinite Earths. It wasn't the "Crisis" article name that caught my attention but rather the "red skies".

    I remember collecting and reading the original New Teen Titans comics and the Crisis on Infinite Earths series when it first came out in the mid-80's. The red skies were a major giveaway from the producers and they should have known that anyone who was familiar with the comics back then would recognize that.

    The one thing that I was disappointed with was that "The Monitor" is not a character name but is actually a race of beings. Novu is just one of many Monitors that watch over the multiverse. It wasn't until recently, in the latest Justice League comics, where (while it hasn't been addressed) but that Novu and Mobius have had their origins rewritten again so that they are now sons of Perpetua, an ancient being that was imprisoned in the Source Wall, something that Darkseid and the New Gods are connected to. The Source Wall became a major plot device during the Justice League: No Justice mini series and had consequences for the D.C. Universe as a whole. Justice League and the Titans factor heavily into that particular storyarc.

    But, I would love to see Berlanti adapt the "Speed Force" war that was told in a recent Flash storyarc that ran through the comic.
     
  18. Garysb

    Garysb Producer

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    New trailer for the conclusion of the Crisis has been released.

     
  19. Thomas Newton

    Thomas Newton Screenwriter

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    The show runners seem to have been preparing "cheats" for both deaths.

    1. Another Flash (the one from the 1990s Flash TV show?) sacrificed himself to save 'our' Flash. When the Monitor said "The Flash must die", he left out that detail about how he apparently did not know which one. ("Mar Novu, here's your bill for $100,000 in therapy for everybody at Star Labs, for the unnecessary stress and anguish you put them through.")

    2. Oliver's survivors took his body to a Lazarus pit on another Earth. They were on the verge of retrieving his soul to go with it when Jim Corrigan intercepted them to deliver the message that Oliver must assume the role of the Spectre. The Spectre is a being of nearly unlimited powers, who could easily restore Oliver after the Crisis. While Arrow is coming to an end, maybe Oliver will be getting a happy ending after all.
     
  20. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    "Crisis on Earth-X" is still the gold standard for telling one continuous story over multiple parts, to the point where you're not even sure which series you're watching.

    This crossover has been more interconnected than most, but the "Supergirl" hour still felt like a "Supergirl" episode, the "Batwoman" hour felt like a "Batwoman" episode, and the "Flash" hour felt like a "Flash" episode.

    I would be shocked if Oliver (in some form) doesn't have a major, major role to play in the final two episodes. Agree completely about using the penultimate episode of "Arrow" as a backdoor pilot for the potential spinoff.

    The producers are on record as saying that the original plan for "Arrow" was to stay grounded, with no superpowers and no supernatural elements -- basically a crime drama with hero costumes. That changed once they got the green light to make a Flash series. So I think calling Diggle's ex-wife Lyla Michaels was just a fun nod to the superfans that they then started building toward once they knew this was going to be a reality.

    I'd been stating, ever since the pilot episode was released online, months in advance of the TV series, that the newspaper article that was shown at the end of the pilot episode was a reference to Crisis on Infinite Earths. It wasn't the "Crisis" article name that caught my attention but rather the "red skies".

    I remember collecting and reading the original New Teen Titans comics and the Crisis on Infinite Earths series when it first came out in the mid-80's. The red skies were a major giveaway from the producers and they should have known that anyone who was familiar with the comics back then would recognize that.

    The crossover was already asking general TV audiences to grapple with complicated concepts like multiple universes and time travel, so keeping it to just one meant one less thing people had to keep track of.

    Since there's a back half of the season for "The Flash", it's pretty clear that he'll be alive in one form or another.

    As for Oliver, I'd guess that:
    once the Spectre no longer needs him as a host, Oliver will spend the finale settling his affairs. And then he and Felicity will be reunited in the paradise pocket dimension.
     

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