Crawdaddy's "Random Thoughts" about Home Video, Film & TV (5 Viewers)

[Hollywoodaholic]

The Big Sleep. Okay, I actually followed the plot this time almost until the very end/ but I still don't understand why Eddie Mars' wife went into hiding.

My BIG laugh this time is how every single woman, no matter how large or small her role, swoons all over Marlowe like he's Brad Pitt (who, incidentally just won the Supporting Actor Golden Globe last night for Once Upon A Time in Hollywood for playing his 'nonchalant, laid back self). And I'd describe Bogart as many outstanding things, but 'cute' is not one of them.

 

[Robert Crawford]

The Big Sleep. Okay, I actually followed the plot this time almost until the very end/ but I still don't understand why Eddie Mars' wife went into hiding.

My BIG laugh this time is how every single woman, no matter how large or small her role, swoons all over Marlowe like he's Brad Pitt (who, incidentally just won the Supporting Actor Golden Globe last night for Once Upon A Time in Hollywood for playing his 'nonchalant, laid back self). And I'd describe Bogart as many outstanding things, but 'cute' is not one of them.

To me, that is part of the charm of this movie. Nothing like seeing an average looking guy getting the chicks. They even make light of Marlowe's looks when he first arrives at the Sternwood mansion and meets Sternwood's daughters. When Carmen tells Marlowe he's "cute", I think it has more to do with how he acts and the way he talks to her than his actual looks. The same with Vivian.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yes, he did, but Elisha Cook, Jr. who played memorably with Bogart in The Maltese Falcon had a heartbreaking role here and didn't merit a mention. And how about the actor playing Eddie Mars? I'd love to have known where he came from and what happened to him. Yes, I can do my own research and will, but for one of the pivotal noirs of the genre, I guess I'm selfish and wanted more.

Man, John Ridgely has been in so many Warner films with Bogart, Cagney and Garfield, you can't help to know who he is. With that said, I get your point and agree with you that I wish Eddie spent more time discussing these supporting actors.

 

[Matt Hough]

I know Eddie doesn't have unlimited time and has to pick and choose "his battles" in these discussions. And you're right: he ALWAYS gives generous amounts of time to the writer(s) which is only fitting since the movie couldn't be made without him/her/them. As I said, I'm just selfish. Someone with Eddie's knowledge and inviting on-camera delivery should be doing feature length commentary on these films not just on their discs but for the TCM viewing audience, too!

Anyway, I forgot to mention yesterday that I DID watch the whole thing. I usually watch the 1945 version when I choose that movie to view, so this was a way to kind of balance the ledger with the "official release version."

 

[Robin9]

The Big Sleep. Okay, I actually followed the plot this time almost until the very end/ but I still don't understand why Eddie Mars' wife went into hiding.

To distract attention away from the fact Regan had been murdered. (By giving the impression he was missing because he had run off with someone's wife)

 

[Robert Crawford]

I feel the same way as Eddie does in regard to "Heat" (1995) and "Thief" (1981).

 

[Robert Crawford]

Looks like our first major winter storm is going to hit mid-Michigan on Saturday, January 11th. I need to stock up on some munchies on Friday for my weekend viewing of NFL football and movies as I doubt I'll come out of the house until Monday.

 

[Mysto]

Looks like our first major winter storm is going to hit mid-Michigan on Saturday, January 11th. I need to stock up on some munchies on Friday for my weekend viewing of NFL football and movies as I doubt I'll come out of the house until Monday.

Only us home theater nuts look forward to a rain or snow storm.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Only us home theater nuts look forward to a rain or snow storm.

Especially those home theater nuts that are retired.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I feel the same way as Eddie does in regard to "Heat" (1995) and "Thief" (1981).

I think of Heat as Noir and my reasons are the dialogue number one I think is very "noir" and the two main characters played by Pacino and De Niro are very "noir" characters that have a very "noir" relationship.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I think of Heat as Noir and my reasons are the dialogue number one I think is very "noir" and the two main characters played by Pacino and De Niro are very "noir" characters that have a very "noir" relationship.

I'm much more liberal when it comes to labeling movies "Noir" so I don't have an issue with either of the films Eddie referenced as being "Noir".

 

[Cranston37+]

I think of Heat as Noir and my reasons are the dialogue number one I think is very "noir" and the two main characters played by Pacino and De Niro are very "noir" characters that have a very "noir" relationship.

I posted this last summer in response to a similar discussion:

“Eddie has often said that film noir, which was a purely organic style of film, lasted from roughly 1941-1958.

This was the period when it didn't even have a name, the movies just came naturally from the mood of the country. They were a unique reflection tied to a very specific time.

After that things were different, even if the movies might have felt the same.”

Movies like “Heat” might remind of the noir movies that came out between ‘41-‘58, but they are not actual film noir.

BTW - I kind of get the sense that Eddie loathes doing those “Noir or Not” things...

 

[Robert Crawford]

I posted this last summer in response to a similar discussion:

“Eddie has often said that film noir, which was a purely organic style of film, lasted from roughly 1941-1958.

This was the period when it didn't even have a name, the movies just came naturally from the mood of the country. They were a unique reflection tied to a very specific time.

After that things were different, even if the movies might have felt the same.”

Movies like “Heat” might remind of the noir movies that came out between ‘41-‘58, but they are not actual film noir.

BTW - I kind of get the sense that Eddie loathes doing those “Noir or Not” things...

They’re called neo-noir movies.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I posted this last summer in response to a similar discussion:

“Eddie has often said that film noir, which was a purely organic style of film, lasted from roughly 1941-1958.

This was the period when it didn't even have a name, the movies just came naturally from the mood of the country. They were a unique reflection tied to a very specific time.

After that things were different, even if the movies might have felt the same.”

Movies like “Heat” might remind of the noir movies that came out between ‘41-‘58, but they are not actual film noir.

BTW - I kind of get the sense that Eddie loathes doing those “Noir or Not” things...

Yes, in terms of using the term "noir" I am in Robert's camp of having a very open view.

In terms of that period that Eddie is talking about I certainly recognize that's the period where that style was born and then it was given a name after the fact. I just sort of find people are much more strict with labeling "noir" than I am. Some folks I have seen only want to allow black and white pictures, or pictures specifically from that time frame Eddie mentions.

To me I think if the French after the fact grouped those films together when in fact the people making those pictures when they made them were not really sitting around saying "I want to make a noir and follow the rules of this genre." means they just created this definition of them. So, that definition can be as loose or as tight as any specific individual wants to make it.

I understand that films made after that birth of noir period are generally just called neo-noir which I am also fine with. I mean these pictures are obviously influenced by those films from the 41-58 time frame. So, those guys making noir-ish films are setting out with a set of rules and format for what they feel is noir. So, the funny thing is they are really setting out attempting to make something "noir" whereas the guys making pictures from 41-58 really were not. They found out later they had made noirs.

I guess the way I refer to it is those films from 41-58 are "classic noirs" and later noir influenced pictures I just call noir.

Basically it always sparks my interest when a film comes out and somebody says "It's very noir!" because I like the style.

I mean the theatrical release or first release of Blade Runner to me seems primarily a noir with science fiction elements in the mix. I feel like if you were really labeling the biggest influence on the picture it would be noir. They just set it in the future with modes of transport, communication, and weapons that are "futuristic" to sort of jazz up the basic noir story elements.

However, when people put the label on it, they use science fiction. Or some people say "future noir."

If I were to get really simplistic I would say a western is a western whether it was made in 1952 or 1982 or 2022. So, why can't a noir be a noir no matter when it was made?

I think that's in part why Eddie is sort of uncomfortable labeling a film noir or not noir. Sure sitting here in 2020 we can all now look at the history of noir, how it was born, when the French started calling films noir in the 1950s, and how later and current filmmakers were inspired by it and continue to try to use those elements in their pictures.

It's kind of nice as fans that enjoy the genre to have it be a living breathing thing rather than a sort of museum piece that ended in 1958. Sure I get that "noir" feeling was born out of post-war aspects of our society and so being strict about it the films made in that time frame with those darker emotional elements are a reflection of that time.

I think they are reflecting a society that was traumatized by the war but sadly as a society we continue to be traumatized by various things and really noir is an outstanding vehicle to express that.

So, just a long version of what Robert said...I am liberal with my use of the term.

 

[Cranston37+]

All good thoughts.

I think the thing that makes the noir films from that specific period so special is that they were organic. That’s just the mood the country was in, and movies reflected that mood. Whereas a movie like Chinatown or Body Heat were different - they weren’t reflecting the current national mood, they were paying homage to other movies, essentially. In other words, the backbone that held them up, their reason to be, was different.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

All good thoughts.

I think the thing that makes the noir films from that specific period so special is that they were organic. That’s just the mood the country was in, and movies reflected that mood. Whereas a movie like Chinatown or Body Heat were different - they weren’t reflecting the current national mood, they were paying homage to other movies, essentially. In other words, the backbone that held them up, their reason to be, was different.

Yes, I agree and when you say organic I think of that idea again that those filmmakers from 1941 to 1958 were not creating these pictures to ape a style but rather to essentially tap into the anxiety of the time. Something about the filmmakers of the 1970s was they were often making movies that were always a bit about movies. Meaning that Chinatown was about something and actually today it may be even more relevant than it was then but it was also a movie about movies. Laid over the story and the wonderful acting, particularly by Nicholson, are the trappings of Film Noir...done brilliantly in this case I think.

But if you are just stepping back to evaluate the film what Polanski is doing is demonstrating he understands the rules and tropes of a specific style and putting them to work in his picture. So, the seams are showing so to speak but not by accident. I guess that makes these neo-noirs less organic because you don't have a filmmaker just quickly knocking out a film, you have a filmmaker fussing about demonstrating his mastery of a genre.

Here's something really funny about that...those film nerd directors of the 1970s were often showing off how enamored they were with other people's pictures be it John Ford or a European director. Then we get a guy like Tarantino who goes a few more levels deep. He plainly is making movies about movies and his love of movies and often he is attempting to ape Euro filmmakers that were aping American filmmakers that were aping Euro filmmakers.

So, the idea of making movies about movies just sort of took over. Now it is kind of a surprise to go to a movie that is not also about making movies because the idea that you should be openly referencing another picture or pictures is standard practice. That's different than the guys trying to knock out movies quickly and on a budget in the 40s and 50s.

Now the artifice is meant to be in plain view, easily seen so that the audience understands the filmmaker understands the picture or pictures he is aping.

 

[Robert Crawford]

This weekend's Noir Alley movie is "The Big Night" (1951) starring Drew Barrymore's father John Drew Barrymore, Preston Forster, Joan Lorring and Howard St. John. Directed by Joseph Losey. Another first time viewing for me.

TCM's Noir Alley 2019/2020 schedule.

03-09-19: D.O.A. (1950)
03-16-19: High Sierra (1941)
03-23-19: Lady in the Lake (1946)
03-30-19: Border Incident (1949)
04-06-19: 99 River Street (1953)
04-13-19: Nobody Lives Forever (1946)
04-20-19: M (1951)
04-27-19: Woman on the Run (1950)
05-04-19: Nightmare Alley (1947)
05-11-19: White Heat (1949)
05-18-19: Key Largo (1948)
05-25-19: Dead Reckoning (1947)
06-01-19: The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
06-08-19: Nora Prentiss (1947)
06-15-19: Pickup on South Street (1953)
06-22-19: Shadow on the Wall (1950)
06-29-19: On Dangerous Ground (1951)
07-06-19: The Tattooed Stranger (1950)
07-13-19: The People Against O'Hara (1951)
07-20-19: While the City Sleeps (1956)
07-27-19: Thieves' Highway (1949)
09-07-19: The Big Clock (1948)
09-14-19: Nocturne (1946)
09-21-19: The Woman on the Beach (1947)
09-28-19: The Harder They Fall (1956)
10-05-19: Trapped (1949)
10-12-19: Clash By Night (1952)
10-19-19: This Gun For Hire (1942)
10-26-19: Force of Evil (1948)
11-02-19: Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
11-09-19: Johnny Eager (1941)
11-16-19: The Hitch-Hiker (1953)
11-23-19: Kansas City Confidential (1952)
11-30-19: The Mask of Dimitrios (1944)
12-07-19: Berlin Express (1948)
12-14-19: Criss Cross (1949)
12-21-19: Cash on Demand (1961)
12-28-19: Repeat Performance (1947)
01-04-20: The Big Sleep (1946)
01-11-20: The Big Night (1951)
01-18-20: The Captive City (1952)
01-25-20: Try and Get Me! (1950)

 

[Robert Crawford]

Looks like our first major winter storm is going to hit mid-Michigan on Saturday, January 11th. I need to stock up on some munchies on Friday for my weekend viewing of NFL football and movies as I doubt I'll come out of the house until Monday.

Man, it's bad out there with the ice and winds. Not a lot of snow, but a bunch of ice which can be worse as I had some pizza delivered to the house earlier this afternoon as I wasn't about to drive today if I could help it.

 

[Matt Hough]

Yeah, I've never seen The Big Night either, and I'm looking forward to it tomorrow at lunchtime.

 

[Matt Hough]

Man, it's bad out there with the ice and winds. Not a lot of snow, but a bunch of ice which can be worse as I had some pizza delivered to the house earlier this afternoon as I wasn't about to drive today if I could help it.

I knew there was going to be a lot of really bad weather around the country today, and it's almost churlish of me to admit we had a tiny bit of drizzle only and a high of 71 today: and it's January 11th!!!

There is still a lot of winter to go, but it's been the mildest one here in my recollection thus far.