Could the original, unaltered STAR WARS be on its way to Blu-ray? (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

Kevin, we're never going to get a consensus on what OOT fans want, but as I've said many pages ago, and others have picked up in this thread, I think the [silent] majority of us would be fine with Criterion-level treatment of the title. If Criterion can do it for films they license, rather than own the assets to, with less tools than Disney/LFL/ILM/Skywalker ranch have, and whose Blu-ray sales pale in comparison to what the OOT would generate, then really LFL/Disney has no good excuse not to reach at least that bar. Anything "above and beyond" would be a bonus.

 

[Kevin EK]

I hear you Carlos, but my question remains: What happens when Lucasfilm doesn't do a Criterion-level treatment? What happens when all they do is a simple 2K scan and some color correction?

 

[Carlo_M]

I hear you Carlos, but my question remains: What happens when Lucasfilm doesn't do a Criterion-level treatment? What happens when all they do is a simple 2K scan and some color correction?

I think there have been 2K Criterion transfers. And color correction (especially assuming it's accurate to the original film) would be great. They have to at least pass it through the software that Criterion does to assist in removing dirt/debris. Unless the preserved film elements are so pristine that they don't need it, of course, but I wonder what the chances are of that.

Obviously we'd prefer 4K but 2K done very well should suffice. I would think Disney, being the master of "selling things multiple times to users" (cough, Vault, cough!) they'd at least do a 4K for self-interest, so they can sell it again to fans with no additional costs in 5+ years when 4K is the home standard. They can literally get 2-fer-the-price of one here, do a 4K, sell a Blu-ray now, have the digital files ready for 4K, then sell it again without lifting a pinky to do any more work in 4-5 years. In time for Episode IX!

 

[Dave H]

I hear you Carlos, but my question remains: What happens when Lucasfilm doesn't do a Criterion-level treatment? What happens when all they do is a simple 2K scan and some color correction?

Why are you so certain about this? How do you know exactly what they are going to do?

I think Disney's policy with Blu-ray is always the original theatrical version now I think about it.

 

[Dave H]

I think there have been 2K Criterion transfers. And color correction (especially assuming it's accurate to the original film) would be great. They have to at least pass it through the software that Criterion does to assist in removing dirt/debris. Unless the preserved film elements are so pristine that they don't need it, of course, but I wonder what the chances are of that.

Obviously we'd prefer 4K but 2K done very well should suffice. I would think Disney, being the master of "selling things multiple times to users" (cough, Vault, cough!) they'd at least do a 4K for self-interest, so they can sell it again to fans with no additional costs in 5+ years when 4K is the home standard. They can literally get 2-fer-the-price of one here, do a 4K, sell a Blu-ray now, have the digital files ready for 4K, then sell it again without lifting a pinky to do any more work in 4-5 years. In time for Episode IX!

I agree. I mean look at it this way....

If a tiny company like Synapse can go back to the original negative of Prom Night and do a great 2K scan, I don't see why Disney cannot with Star Wars - even if the negative needs work and dealing with the optical effects, etc. I mean come on! lol

 

[Dave H]

Except that the original theatrical release of Star Wars is not in a sorry state. It's been carefully preserved by Lucasfilm. Granted, we don't have a nice HD copy of it we can currently watch, but we all agree that we're likely to have one offered to us within the next two years. The issue will be whether the fans are okay with what Lucasfilm does at that point, or if they'll insist that they will insist on nothing less than a major 4K restoration before plunking down their coin.

4K would be preferable, of course, especially for 4K Blu which is probably coming end of 2015 or some time in 2016.

If Disney is going to do this, then do it right and future proof it.

 

[gizzy2000]

I hear you Carlos, but my question remains: What happens when Lucasfilm doesn't do a Criterion-level treatment? What happens when all they do is a simple 2K scan and some color correction?

I haven't ruled out that they'd do a 4K restoration of the unaltered versions, especially if they're already doing a big 4K restoration project on the trilogy to begin with, and also because much more expensive restorations have been done on films that won't sell nearly as well as Star Wars. That being said, I'd still be absolutely ecstatic if I had HD copies of the unaltered films, whether 2K or 4K. Honestly, a simple 2k scan cleaned up with a bit of color correction is probably the same as what most movies on blu ray get nowadays. Sure, Star Wars deserves better, but if anyone here is going to boycott an OUT release because it isn't up to Lawrence of Arabia standards, then I think the skeptics are right that it is impossible to satisfy some of these purists. I mean, I completely understand boycotting the '06 releases, I personally found that release to be insulting because I think my VHS tapes look better than those. However, if the unaltered films look as good as the average blu ray movie, I'd be satisfied, and everyone who demands a 4K release should be too, because a nice 2K release of the OT would be the perfect source for one of those fan editors to use when covering up SE changes in their fan reconstructions.

 

[Kevin EK]

Dave, to answer your question, 4K is a lot more expensive than 2K, and a lot more time consuming. We all agree that Lucasfilm will do 4K work on the current editions of all 6 movies. That's a no-brainer. But the earlier versions of the Star Wars trilogy? That's a completely separate project. Assuming that Lucasfilm will make those versions available in HD, and I believe they will, they're not going to be spending serious money trying to prepare them. Lucasfilm will take the simplest route possible, doing a scan and checking the color and calling it a day. The major work will be spent on the current editions, and yes, that will be future-proofed up to 4K. Of course, we should also keep in mind that 4K HDTVs don't show a real difference until you get into significant size, or into glasses-free 3D, which hasn't gotten out of the prototype idea yet.

 

[Kevin EK]

Carlos, I have to admit I didn't think it was possible to use a new HD release of the original versions to spur even more fan edits. But you're right. That's exactly what will happen. Of course, that will also depend on people actually purchasing these HD versions rather than boycotting them...

 

[MielR]

MielR, I would love to hear about a situation where a fan editor or a pirate was the one who saved a movie from a major studio's negligence. Not just something like Metropolis where an ancient print got discovered several decades later. Please give us some examples of fan editors or pirates who have actually preserved a movie that would have otherwise disappeared. Keep in mind that a situation where the producer or studio still has the original negative and other items like the IP and the separation masters does not count.

Well, Metropolis is one great example. That's NOT a case of "an ancient print got discovered." Someone made a copy of a 35mm print onto 16mm for his own collection, and then returned the 35mm film (isn't that illegal?!) The restored scenes we see today are from that 16mm "bootleg." I said at the top of my post that I wasn't referring to the kind of work that Harmy does (he has no access to original film elements), but just pointing out the similarities to the way fan editors are thought of today, and the way film pirates were thought of during the early days of film. One example: the cut scenes from the 1933 version of King Kong. The studio cut and disposed of a couple of controversial scenes (one where Kong is attempting to remove some of Fay Wray's clothing, another where he stomps on a native), and they were saved (stolen?) by an editor, instead of being disposed of. They were re-inserted into the film at some point in the future, being the only existing copies. Those trims were copyrighted material. The editor really had no right to take them home, but I'm sure most fans of classic monster movies are glad he did.There are many other examples, the reason being is that studios once thought of their film collections as disposable, especially when the transition from silent to sound occurred, and the the films were burned to recover the silver, which was thought to be more valuable. It didn't matter that some of what they burned were the only existing copies. The studios, for the most part, have been terrible stewards of their collections. During the 1970s, 20th Century Fox trashed the original Technicolor nitrate negatives for many of their films (citing concerns of fire), without making sure that the the color separation safety copies were correctly done. Leave Her To Heaven is an example of one of their films that wasn't tested properly.Because of the horrendous, UNprofessional attitude the studios had towards their collections (and still do-- just check out The Alamo thread to see what MGM is NOT doing to preserve that deteriorating film), there were many opportunities for people to surreptitiously take discarded films or scenes from films home. Many silent films that were once thought "lost" (misplaced inside one of the studios' cozy little bonfires, no doubt), were found in "private collections."

 

[gizzy2000]

There'll always be fan edits. If there's a color issue with someone's shirt in the background of Cloud City, then there'll be a fan edit fixing it. Honestly, on my somewhat decent sized TV, I doubt I could even tell the difference between a decent 2K blu ray, and a 4k blu ray, so I'm really not too concerned about this at all. I wouldn't even be commenting about this now if the '06 disc would've looked like actual DVD quality.

 

[Kevin EK]

It's actually quite helpful to bring up The Alamo here. That's a situation that will require the best team RAH can bring to bear just to get the negative to maybe 70%. A fan editor would have no hope whatsoever of recovering that film.

 

[MielR]

It's actually quite helpful to bring up The Alamo here. That's a situation that will require the best team RAH can bring to bear just to get the negative to maybe 70%. A fan editor would have no hope whatsoever of recovering that film.

And if MGM had done a proper restoration back when the only existing roadshow print was originally found (MGM cut and trashed the extra roadshow scenes from all other copies), they wouldn't be facing such a dire situation today. Instead, they chose to let it sit in a vault and fade, and fade, and fade...Mr. Harris seems to think that they're going to do minimal work on the print, (likely only in the digital realm) to ready it for a blu-ray release in an attempt to appease the protestors, and not bother to preserve the extant film elements. If this is the case, I hope they don't employ whoever is responsible for the terrible color job on the '04 OT DVDs. I would have rather had Harmy or Adywan work on those, quite frankly.

 

[Kevin EK]

I would rather that they had a decent team, in the manner that RAH has repeatedly proposed.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Of course, we should also keep in mind that 4K HDTVs don't show a real difference until you get into significant size, or into glasses-free 3D, which hasn't gotten out of the prototype idea yet.

Don't get me started on glasses free 3D TV.

 

[ROclockCK]

Now that the stereoscopic 'elephant' in the far corner of the room has been mentioned, well, "What about 3D?"

Although Lucasfilm abandoned their 3D conversions of the Star Wars* films...will Disney?

* At least releasing them...do we know for certain that they stopped doing them?

 

[johnSM]

I'd be perfectly happy with a carefully done 2k scan of the originals with accurate colour correction. But to be frank, I think the chances of that are slim - 4K is fast becoming the defacto standard, and I doubt the combined giants of Disney & Lucasfilm would go back to 2K? Lastly, they wouldn't want to keep going back to the original negative (and original FX trims - fingers crossed!) so they'd want to future proof themselves a little too, or even create a fresh archival quality negative to preserve a hugely important part of their 4 billion acquisition. They'd need a fresh 4K scan for any future (arghh!) special editions or 3D releases as a base afterall. The upside of which is one team can work on reconstructing the original from these fresh scans of available material, the other can Special Edition-ize to their hearts (or Lucas's) content.I'm usually quite a pessimistic person, but I strongly feel a decent quality version of the originals is very near now. These rumours (unusually) haven't been commented on at all since they broke. Disney & Lucasfilm have remained extraordinarily quiet. It's valuable & free word of mouth & publicity for them, pre Episode VII. The worlds going to go Star Wars crazy again in a years time, and I'm sure they're more than aware of the mixed feelings towards the prequels & the Special-special-special-really this one's the last one-Editions! They'll be wanting to get everyone on board for this in terms of audience. The original cast, shooting on film, far more practical effects & model work, matte paintings, referencing Ralph McQuarries iconic Star Wars universe..... It's all got a deliciously nostalgic & reverential edge to it. I'm sure this attention to detail, of doing things right, will extend to the inevitable Bluray release(s) too John

 

[TravisR]

Although Lucasfilm abandoned their 3D conversions of the Star Wars* films...will Disney?

* At least releasing them...do we know for certain that they stopped doing them?

The plug was pulled on that after the Disney sale so that must have been a Disney call. I don't know about Revenge Of The Sith but the conversion for Attack Of The Clones was finished and shown in 3-D at a Star Wars Celebration Europe last year.

My guess is that once Episode VII came into existence, they tossed the plan to release one 3-D movie a year and are going to do a re-release of all of the movies some time before Episode VII.

 

[ROclockCK]

The plug was pulled on that after the Disney sale so that must have been a Disney call. I don't know about Revenge Of The Sith but the conversion for Attack Of The Clones was finished and shown in 3-D at a Star Wars Celebration Europe last year.

My guess is that once Episode VII came into existence, they tossed the plan to release one 3-D movie a year and are going to do a re-release of all of the movies some time before Episode VII.

...ahhhh, but according to this Deadline piece by Nikki Finke last January, only the prequels will receive further 3D conversion work and theatrical re-release.

Hence my question regarding the OOT..."Does anyone know for certain that 3D conversion has not continued under Disney on Episodes IV, V, and VI for planned theatrical re-release leading up to or coincident with Episode VII?"

Likely anyone who would know at this point, simply can't say. But if confirmed, then that might possibly be a 'smoking gun' for 4k - at least for the SEs - because any work needed for a quality 3D conversion would almost guarantee going back to the negs. And while in there doing that work, reconstructing and remastering the originals, even if only for home video, would be a relatively easy, and cost-effective sidebar task. So a formal 3D announcement could become defacto good news for fans of the OOT.

Again, I keep coming back to the obvious here...those movies represent the foundation for the next trilogy. As such, they have more commercial value to Disney going forward than any of those prequels*.

* which might one day become little more than a curiosity as this series continues to build out from the OOT.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Hence my question regarding the OOT..."Does anyone know for certain that 3D conversion has not continued under Disney on Episodes IV, V, and VI for planned theatrical re-release leading up to or coincident with Episode VII?"

I sure hope 3D conversions are not planned, bloody total degraining, remove fine detail then release in 2.5D, no thanks.

My opinion is that The Phantom Menace looks the way it does on blu ray because they degrained for the 3D comversion and not because they wanted it to look like the prequels which have artificial grain/dither added to them to look more like film.