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Could the original, unaltered STAR WARS be on its way to Blu-ray?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Ronald Epstein, Jul 21, 2013.

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  1. ROclockCK

    ROclockCK Screenwriter

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    FTR, my only skin in this game is film history...as in the proper preservation of what audiences saw in 1977...what was nominated for Best Picture and won the Oscar for not only FX, but also Editing, plus countless other awards...and what was ultimately selected for inclusion in the National Film Registry for permanent protection. Sure, filmmakers can revisit, revise, and enhance their work until the proverbial cows come home for SEs, but I believe they do have a responsibility to cinema and cultural history to preserve their original work.

    What I don't agree with though is how the makers of The People vs. George Lucas mounted their case for the prosecution. There was a nastier agenda there that served neither fans nor film history.
     
  2. gizzy2000

    gizzy2000 Stunt Coordinator

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    I actually have never heard a single person under the age of seventeen (which now includes people who grew up with the prequels) say that about the OT. I know it's anecdotal, but from my experience the prequels are mostly forgotten; they're never quoted, and it's not uncommon to hear regular people who aren't fans say that they barely remember anything about the prequels when asked about them.
     
  3. gizzy2000

    gizzy2000 Stunt Coordinator

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    Something I also want to say is that I just think that if Disney is backing a 4K restoration of the OT, then that would require going back to the original negative, which is now conformed to the first Special Edition. Now, this would mean that approximately 90% of Star Wars and 95% of Empire and Jedi would be completely restored in 4K. I honestly do think that Disney/Lucasfilm would be willing to go back and restore the remain archived negative of the original cuts since they are mounting a big restoration anyway, especially if they're planning on doing an original version release. I don't want to sound like I'm simplifying the film restoration process, but it isn't like the have to restore the whole Special Edition, and then go back and restore the entire film of the original version. I think it seems like a common sense thing to do by restoring all OT material if they're going to be restoring the negatives anyway. I'm not saying I necessarily am betting on them doing this, but I just don't think it seems too unlikely.
     
  4. Persianimmortal

    Persianimmortal Screenwriter

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    Head on over to IMDB. Look at their Star Wars (1977) message board. First thread at the very top: Overrated. Anyone?. I quote the first post:
    Now as that thread progresses, and obviously as you'd expect on a forum dedicated to discussing Star Wars, many people defend the film. But you get glimpses of younger people popping in to add their dislike of Star Wars.

    That's just one quick example I found within 30 seconds of looking. There are plenty of others if you have the time to Google it. For one thing, a lot of younger people don't even bother to post their dislike of the OT because they know they'll be jumped on by Star Wars fans. We have to understand that younger people quite simply don't view Star Wars as the masterpiece that we do, and the prequels are more to their taste if only because their visual style and pacing is more in line with those of current action/sci-fi movies.
     
  5. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I have seen many posts at SW boards from younger fans that much prefer the prequels. Even as someone who enjoys all the movies, I find that crazy but I have seen it. :)
     
  6. Kevin EK

    Kevin EK Producer
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    Robert, it's sadly a bit more complicated than you're thinking. Suffice it to say that Lucasfilm would have a significant project on their hands if they were to try to pull the negatives apart and attempt to re-assemble the original version of Star Wars in particular. There are way, way too many edits and changes, even at the point of the 1997 version, to do such a job without needing to mount something along the lines of RAH's work with the Godfather movies.

    For that reason, while I do believe we'll see a 4K edition of all three of the original movies, it will be of those movies in their current condition. But as we've discussed, we'll likely also see 2K scans of IPs of the original versions thrown in as bonuses. And again, the fans will simply need to tolerate seeing all the flaws in the VFX in glaring detail. As we saw with the Blu-ray of Raiders of the Lost Ark, once you get into a good HD scan of something that was supposed to be seen a little softer, it can have an effect that may not make everyone happy.

    I agree with Steve in his points, but I should point out that Lucasfilm actually has preserved the original versions of these movies. And we have copies of them on DVD today - just not at the level of quality we would prefer.
     
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  7. Adam Gregorich

    Owner

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    I wonder if the fact that they were the first modern sci-fi epics and were pretty ground breaking for us at the time give us an added nostalgia factor that doesn't apply to modern audiences?
     
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  8. UHDvision

    UHDvision Screenwriter

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    This is all bollocks. I was always more a Dirty Harry or Leone man than SW, mostly because it was a mass phenomenon. For me 1977 always was the Sex Pistols year not SW. I much prefered breaking into a venue underage to Clockwork Orange than join the sheeps to SW.Yet I could see SW was beyond awesome when it came to cinema then.And I didn't care about it. Youngsters nowadays have no excuse. To get SW is just one wiki click away. SE or not.
     
  9. gizzy2000

    gizzy2000 Stunt Coordinator

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    I know and I've seen them online as well, but I'm sure there are people online saying that the Godfather or the Wizard of Oz are overrated as well, but those are just as popular as ever, and the people who like the prequels better are probably just as much of a minority as people who like Oz the Great and Powerful better than the classic. I've never met anyone in the real world outside of the internet who has said they like the prequels better, and that includes many college-aged people who would have grown up with the prequels as well. Recently, in one of my Intro to Cinema classes, a student brought up Star Wars and there was a discussion about the series and they just completely brushed off the prequels (no one defended them at all), and these aren't cinema film snobs either, just young adults trying to get some more credits. If anyone would have nostalgia for the prequels, it would be them.
     
  10. Worth

    Worth Producer

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    Likewise. Every twentysomething I've spoken to about Star Wars either prefers the first three (well, first two really) or just has no interest in the series as a whole.
     
  11. gizzy2000

    gizzy2000 Stunt Coordinator

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    Oh yes, I wasn't really thinking about those who don't care about Star Wars, since those who are disinterested have been around since '77. One thing I should mention about the folks who just don't care for Star Wars in general though, is that they know a lot about the original trilogy just because of how iconic it is, and they know next to nothing about the prequels. If you want to gauge how much the prequels have resonated compared to the originals, just talk to someone who's never seen any of them, regardless of age. My niece, who is 10 years old now, asked if she could borrow my Star Wars tapes because she's never seen them, and she said she's curious to see the "I am your father" scene and the "use the force Luke," scenes as well. Just for curiosity's sake I asked her about Ep. I-III and she said she wasn't too interested because she didn't know anything about them, and she asked if she even needed to watch them to understand the story; needless to say I said she didn't need to. Anyway, I know it's all anecdotal, but I've honestly never encountered really any defense of the prequels before (except online, but even then the people who like the originals FAR outweigh the prequel fans), and from my experience when the subject of Star Wars is raised, they don't even really get brought up, except to say how they were disappointing or something.
     
  12. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    I think perhaps your bias towards the originals and dislike of the prequels is clouding your judgement, i am willing to bet that those who grew up with the prequels love them just as much as those who grew up with the original trilogy of films.
     
  13. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I think the prequels are in the same boat as the ending of The Sopranos or the ending of Lost- the endless nerd rage from certain fans has spread from the internet to the point that even 'regular' people now just parrot back what they've heard for years on the internet. They might not have seen them in years (if at all) and they might have enjoyed them when or if they did see them but a lot of people are just repeating what they've read on the internet.

    Before anyone says it, I'm obviously not talking about every person who didn't like those things.
     
  14. Cinescott

    Cinescott Supporting Actor

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    I see the "Original" Star Wars Trilogy as a time capsule. The first three films (Eps. IV to VI) may not have the technical wizardry of today's movies, but in the 70s and 80s, they were amazing and sparked the imaginations of millions.

    That's why it's important to have them in their original forms. Flaws (including garbage mattes) are not a bad thing if they're a product of their time. I don't even mind seeing specks of dirt on a transfer, because it reminds me that this is film, something that is quickly going the way of the dinosaur after 100 years of use.

    It's hard to describe what a rush it was to see Star Wars in 1977 compared with virtually everything that came before it. I was 14 and I had never been so excited to see anything on the big screen.

    My local theater ran the first film for over a year. Imagine that today. Also, there was no (or very little) home video. What you saw at the theater was it, perhaps for many years, until the rights were sold for television, and then it was maybe once a year in pan and scan with commercials.

    I'd be more than happy to get a 2k conversion of an IP print of the original film. It'd be like stepping back to a nostalgic time for me and many others i am sure. .
     
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  15. Worth

    Worth Producer

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    Not necessarily. If they were on the level of something like The Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy, I'd agree, but the prequels just aren't very well made films. There are any number of films I loved as a kid that I have still have a certain nostalgic affection for, but now know they're pretty bad. I suspect most kids who grew up with the prequels view them the way I view something like Buck Rogers or The Black Hole now.
     
  16. Worth

    Worth Producer

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    I agree. I'm probably in the minority on this, but I actually prefer transfers made from IPs or INs than those scanned directly off the negative - they just look more like watching 35mm in the theatre.
     
  17. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    I guess we will have to disagree, they were very well made, you can argue about the scripts, although i liked them, but the production of each was top quality, you can also argue about the CGI and performances but once again they were state of the art at the time they were made and i thought the performances were good and appropriate to each film, especially Ewan McGregor's Obi Wan and i can't fault R2-D2's emotional range, that little guy deserved an Oscar. I also like The Black Hole.
    I prefer it when they scan off the original negative at 4K, i think film grain is sharper and fine detail is better preserved and the blu ray looks better, i think film grain can often have a clumpier appearance when the film is scanned at 2K off an IP.
     
  18. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Yeah, the production design, costume design, special effects and editing are very good. I think it's fair to criticize the scripts and since that's the skeleton of the movie, it's extremely important but it's not as if every aspect of the prequels are lacking.
     
  19. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    Top notch production with a bad script/story/acting is the definition of lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. TPM rates 6.6 on IMDB, AOTC 6.8. Compare that to 8.7 for Star Wars and 8.8 for ESB. Granted IMDB isn't the absolute arbiter of film rankings, but it's a pretty decent barometer of how the general public feels (and it could be argued being an internet service, has more active participants under the age of 40 than over it, so if the "younger generation" really did love the Prequels, they should rank higher.
     
  20. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Maybe the IMDB could be a barometer of the general public's feelings on a normal movie but I would think that something like the Star Wars prequels brings out an unusual amount of people who will either vote it a 1 or a 10.

    That being said, if people need to think that the whole world hates the prequels, go for it.
     

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