What's new

Conversations with Twilight Time's Nick Redman (UPDATED New Interview 9/8/13) (1 Viewer)

ROclockCK

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
1,438
Location
High Country, Alberta, Canada
Real Name
Steve
TravisR said:
And considering that the vast majority of their titles haven't sold out and even the ones that have (except the horror titles) took months to go, I don't understand why it would matter to someone if there's 3,000 or 3,000,000 made.
...or 300...or 30...or 3?

It's like they're on a crusade. Some kind of weird consumer-manifest-pseudo-religious thing...deflecting electrons as if wielding a sword.

Yaaawwwwwnnn...*

* stayed up too late last night rewatching Leave Her to Heaven with the commentary on. It's all about the movies!
 

ahollis

Patron
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
8,852
Location
New Orleans
Real Name
Allen
ROclockCK said:
...or 300...or 30...or 3?

It's like they're on a crusade. Some kind of weird consumer-manifest-pseudo-religious thing...deflecting electrons as if wielding a sword.

Yaaawwwwwnnn...*

* stayed up too late last night rewatching Leave Her to Heaven with the commentary on. It's all about the movies!
Yes!
 

JohnMor

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
5,157
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Real Name
John Moreland
Jari K said:
They try to create "collector's items" in a matter of months and create a buzz a la "OOP Criterion". At least I'm not buying it and I don't buy any of their releases (it's not that I need to, since many of them go "OOP" - 3000 copies is not much). Too bad, since the films itself are pretty good.

I know that the market has changed. People just don't buy that much DVD and Blu-rays anymore (outside the mainstream releases, at least). "Limited edition" is not 10 000 (or 30 000, 60 000, whatever) copies like it was back in the days, but to me 3000 is an insult. Insult as an movie collector and insult as a "true fan". It's just "buy our release and let the Ebay do the rest".
Huh? Out of 60 releases, only 10 have gone out of print. 1/6 of their catalogue. 5/6 is still available.
 

Jari K

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
3,288
Robert Crawford said:
I don't have a problem with you having an opinion about this business model. However, I thought this personal swipe was unnecessary and it doesn't reflect well on you and your argument.

Fair enough, my apologies for that.


Rob W said:
Jari, in order to be consistent with your thinking you should be refusing to purchase ALL Sony and Fox titles since they're the ones who licensed their titles to those despicable Twilight Time con artists .
So certain releases from Sony and Fox are limited to 3 000? I'm sure you get my point here.
But my point is actually related to Sony and Fox, though. Once these "deals" with TT are done, they probably release several titles again at some point. And these deals probably doesn't apply to e.g. Europe (as you can see from The Fury).
ahollis said:
Are you upset that the business model is only 3000 copies or is there another reason? Every title I own has an immaculate transfer, picture and sound and a welcome addition to my collection.
"Upset" is not the right word. Let's say that I'm a bit worried that this type of business model will take off in the future and several smaller companies are putting out releases that are limited to 2-3 000 copies, maybe less. Like I said earlier, "limited" is fine but it should be more than 3 000. I can't remember many LE releases from the DVD era (believe me, I have loads of them) that went much under 10 000. So yes, this "3 000" is that main issue for me.

Then again one thing is also extras. Usually "limited edition" means that it has several extras, it has different versions/audio, goodies in the box - hell, at least it's packaged in a digi-pack or similar. TT releases are $29.95 with very little extras.
ROclockCK said:
It's like they're on a crusade. Some kind of weird consumer-manifest-pseudo-religious thing...deflecting electrons as if wielding a sword.
Oh, the old "they" argument again. Haven't seen that one on the internet forums before. ;)

It's just me. Old DVD/Blu-ray collector and a "movie fan" saying my opinion. I'm fully aware that it (opinion) doesn't really matter, since I'm sure there are potential 3 000+ customers that are interested in these releases. I don't buy them? Who cares.

JohnMor said:
Huh? Out of 60 releases, only 10 have gone out of print. 1/6 of their catalogue. 5/6 is still available.

10 are already oop? Well, how many Criterion BD titles are out there and how many are out of print? I believe around 10 (if Breathless is OOP, then I guess 11). And they have over 260 BD titles (again, I believe).

Some titles go OOP, nothing wrong with that. It's unavoidable. But with TT plenty is based on the assumption that people will rush to the online store and order these releases before they go OOP.
 

ahollis

Patron
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
8,852
Location
New Orleans
Real Name
Allen
The 3000 number seems to be the correct number since only about 8 titles have sold out. I don't have a problem if other companies go this route on classic titles. Anything to get more classic titles out on Blu-ray or released for the first time as THE WAYWARD BUS, SWAMP WATER and THE EGYPTIAN was, with only THE EGYPTIAN selling out after two years. Also DVDs have gone OOP. Just look at the number of Paramount titles that went OOP a few years ago. Thank goodness for the WAC re-issuing them.
 

JohnMor

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
5,157
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Real Name
John Moreland
Jari K said:
Besides, we all know that many of these titles will be re-released at some point and probably with better extras. Good, recent example is "The Fury": Twilight Time has isolated score while the UK release is loaded with extras (and has that isolated score also).
Jari K said:
Like I said earlier, "limited" is fine but it should be more than 3 000. I can't remember many LE releases from the DVD era (believe me, I have loads of them) that went much under 10 000. So yes, this "3 000" is that main issue for me.
But why? 5/6 of their catalogue is not out of print. You want them to have even more unsold copies sitting on their shelves? And if people are buying the European editions or the soon to follow US reissues you mention above with better extras, then your argument about trying to create a collectors item doesn't hold much water at all.
 

Richard Gallagher

Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2001
Messages
4,275
Location
Fishkill, NY
Real Name
Rich Gallagher
I count seven TT Blu-ray titles which have gone out of print: The Egyptian, Mysterious Island, Fright Night, The Big Heat, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Night of the Living Dead, and Christine. Of the seven, only the three horror movies sold out right away. Journey to the Center of the Earth took two months to sell out, but The Egyptian was available for nearly two years.

It continues to amaze me that people who seemingly know nothing about the business of manufacturing and selling Blu-ray discs feel qualified to rail about Twilight Time's business model. If the business model is so bad, why is TT still in business? Not only is it still in business, its output is increasing from two titles per month to four in January and five in February. That's some failing business model!
 

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
66,476
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
It continues to amaze me that people who seemingly know nothing about the business of manufacturing and selling Blu-ray discs feel qualified to rail about Twilight Time's business model. If the business model is so bad, why is TT still in business? Not only is it still in business, its output is increasing from two titles per month to four in January and five in February. That's some failing business model!
gallery_269895_23_1552.jpg


Had one of these left from a review I did today. How appropriate for me to use it here.
 

ahollis

Patron
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
8,852
Location
New Orleans
Real Name
Allen
Richard Gallagher said:
It continues to amaze me that people who seemingly know nothing about the business of manufacturing and selling Blu-ray discs feel qualified to rail about Twilight Time's business model. If the business model is so bad, why is TT still in business? Not only is it still in business, its output is increasing from two titles per month to four in January and five in February. That's some failing business model!
I am in total agreement of your statement. I have been able to get every title I wanted and it did amaze me that others did not sell out quickly but then I guess I did not understand the business side at the time. You can teach an old dog new tricks.
 

Moe Dickstein

Filmmaker
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2001
Messages
3,307
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Real Name
T R Wilkinson
So Jari, you would prefer it to be "Limited to whatever they can sell" As to Criterion, if you count DVD and Blu titles there are nearly 100 out of print titles out of 673, which is pretty close to the TT ratio of out of print titles.I think there is every possibility that many of the TT sell outs will be re-licensed once the 3 year period is up and will be reissued again in another run of 3000, or that the studio would themselves release the title. If you just want the movie all you're having to do is wait, which you chose to do when you didn't buy into the first run.
 

ROclockCK

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
1,438
Location
High Country, Alberta, Canada
Real Name
Steve
Jari K said:
Oh, the old "they" argument again. Haven't seen that one on the internet forums before. ;)
It's a tired reaction to a tired argument. As in spent. Kaput-ski.

If TT had existed back in 2007/2008 and we were having this discussion at that point in the development of the Blu-ray format, I would have no doubt been more inclined to say "Well okay, now that the format war is over, let's wait-see what the studios will do with their catalogues before jumping straight to a limited edition boutique label." (although just as likely I would have still been drawn to TT's editions anyway because of my interest in their soundtrack showcase via IST). But let's assume, hypothetically, an even footing in terms of disc content and packaging, just for the sake of argument here.

So what happened between 2008 and 2011 in terms of catalogue output on Blu-ray? From time to time, we've all seen numbers posted for the pre-80s titles from all the major studios during this period, and frankly the precise counts aren't really important...you can basically sum up that *official* output as 'almost squat'. Oh, a few of the near-recent usual suspects got re-mastered for HD. A few existing HD-DVD and DVD masters got ported over with no new work. Criterion was ramping up its Blu-ray line with a couple of releases each month. But on the whole, the flow of catalogue titles during that period was at best dribbles.

Flash forward to summer of 2011, at a point when I had just about given up hope of seeing very much pre-80s content make it to high-def. Then along comes this upstart little boutique label taking one of my all time fave underappreciated epics, The Egyptian, to Blu-ray. $40 bucks plus shipping - ouch! But it was from a recent HD rescan. It included a Commentary. It included the IST. So I jumped anyway because that particular film happens to be a touchstone for me, and I'd paid twice that amount for the Fox Widescreen Laserdisc. And it was indeed a gorgeous release - worth every single penny I will never need to spend again to own and view this film. Three months later we got Mysterious Island beautifully re-mastered by Grover Crisp and his Sony asset team. Followed by the art house gem Rapture rescued from obscurity after 45 years in the Fox vault. Followed by Fright Night reminding us that here we were 5 years into this Blu-ray thing, with a remake of this movie in theatres no less, and Sony still couldn't justify running with a wider Blu-ray release. After that, TT continued this trend throughout 2012/2013, offering the most eclectic collector and music-savvy slate I've ever seen from a single label, with the possible exception of Criterion...although even they wouldn't have touched some of these more obscure American movie-movies...many unseen on home video since Laserdisc, some not since VHS.

My point is, TT did it. They didn't leave us indefinitely wondering when/if/maybe any of these titles would ever be deemed worthy of wider studio retail release. They went after them, put cash on the barrelhead to secure the rights, then authored/manufactured/distributed them, and in the following 2 years delivered a steady stream of almost uniformly first class Blu-rays. In aggregate, theirs is a stunning collection in terms of both content and presentation. Of course, you would have to see and hear their discs to know that.
Jari K said:
It's just me. Old DVD/Blu-ray collector and a "movie fan" saying my opinion. I'm fully aware that it (opinion) doesn't really matter, since I'm sure there are potential 3 000+ customers that are interested in these releases. I don't buy them? Who cares.
Good question! If you haven't purchased any of these discs, and clearly have no intention of doing so, then why would you consider it worth all this handwringing over the lost opportunity for others to not to buy them as well?


This just strikes me as profoundly misplaced proselytizing...hence my religious analogy.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
ROclockCK said:
This just strikes me as profoundly misplaced proselytizing...hence my religious analogy.
Some people just love to hear the sound of their own voice, both figuratively and literally. :)

Whether it is through yelling, screaming, pontificating, writing long diatribes, etc ...
 

ROclockCK

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
1,438
Location
High Country, Alberta, Canada
Real Name
Steve
Richard Gallagher said:
I count seven TT Blu-ray titles which have gone out of print: The Egyptian, Mysterious Island, Fright Night, The Big Heat, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Night of the Living Dead, and Christine. Of the seven, only the three horror movies sold out right away. Journey to the Center of the Earth took two months to sell out, but The Egyptian was available for nearly two years.
Just FYI: I used to post this running tally on another site Richard:
Christine (Blu-ray):
Feb. 15, 2013 - Feb. 15, 2013

< 1 Day (4.5 to 5 hours)

Night of the Living Dead '90 (Blu-ray):
Sept. 14, 2012 - Sept. 22, 2012

8 Days

Body Double (Blu-ray):
July 24, 2013 - Aug. 14, 2013**

18 Days**

Fright Night (Blu-ray):
Nov. 15, 2011 - Dec. 19, 2011

35 Days

Journey to the Center of the Earth (Blu-ray):
Apr. 13, 2012 - July 11, 2012

90 Days

The Fury (Blu-ray):
Feb. 15, 2013 - Aug. 31, 2013**

190 Days**


Mysterious Island (Blu-ray):
Oct. 14, 2011 - July 13, 2012

277 Days

The Big Heat (Blu-ray):
Apr. 13, 2012 - Aug. 6, 2013

490 Days (1 year, 4 months, and 3 days)

The Flim-Flam Man (DVD):
Aug. 9, 2011* - Jan. 28, 2013

538 Days (1 year, 5 months, and 19 days)*
Fate is the Hunter (DVD):
May 10, 2011* - Jan. 23, 2013

625 Days (1 year, 8 months, and 14 days)*
The Egyptian (Blu-ray):
July 12, 2011* - April 25, 2013

653 Days (1 year, 9 months, and 13 days)*
The Left Hand of God (DVD):
Oct. 14, 2011 - Aug. 5, 2013**

661 Days (1 year, 9 months, and 19 days)**

The Egyptian (DVD):
July 12, 2011* - Sept. 12, 2013

794 Days (2 years, 2 months, and 1 day)*

* Calculated from Release Date. Exact Pre-Order Date Unknown, so add approximately 30 days to the date ranges shown here.
** Sell out date on SAE + TCM, whichever came last.


Blu-rays = 9. DVDs = 4 Total Count = 13

Note: The Egyptian sold out in both formats, although both the DVD of it and The Fury Blu-ray show as still available on TCM's site.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
ROclockCK said:
Good question! If you haven't purchased any of these discs, and clearly have no intention of doing so, then why would you consider it worth all this handwringing over the lost opportunity for others to not to buy them as well?
In my experience, such vocal handwringing can almost always be traced down to the complainer being on the sidelines and having very little to no power in calling the shots.

(This may be applicable to many other facets of life, both inside and outside the niche of dvd/bluray movies).
 

Jari K

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
3,288
With e.g. Criterion, titles usually go OOP because they lose the license. It could take years, or at least some years.So tell me, does TT has the licensing deal for just 3 000 copies, or do they just limit those releases because that's their business model?And for the record, I didn't claim that their "limited" concept is bad for them. If they make a profit and people like their releases, I guess it's working. I just don't understand why titles like Fright Night, Christine, Sleepless in Seattle, Major Dundee and Philadelphia are limited to 3000 copies. If that's what you want in the future, fine. I don't.
 

Jari K

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
3,288
jcroy said:
Some people just love to hear the sound of their own voice, both figuratively and literally. :)

Whether it is through yelling, screaming, pontificating, writing long diatribes, etc ...
Are you preaching to me? Remember that we are talking about Blu-ray releases here from one outfit and I don't see why this should go to a personal level. Anyone having a "personal" issue, you can always PM me.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
Jari K said:
Are you preaching to me? Remember that we are talking about Blu-ray releases here from one outfit and I don't see why this should go to a personal level. Anyone having a "personal" issue, you can always PM me.
I'm making a general observation.

It includes myself. I too like hearing the sound of my own voice. :)
 

ahollis

Patron
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
8,852
Location
New Orleans
Real Name
Allen
Jari K said:
With e.g. Criterion, titles usually go OOP because they lose the license. It could take years, or at least some years.So tell me, does TT has the licensing deal for just 3 000 copies, or do they just limit those releases because that's their business model?.
That's their licensing deal with Sony, Fox and MGM. No less and no more.
 

ahollis

Patron
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
8,852
Location
New Orleans
Real Name
Allen
Jari K said:
And for the record, I didn't claim that their "limited" concept is bad for them. If they make a profit and people like their releases, I guess it's working. I just don't understand why titles like Fright Night, Christine, Sleepless in Seattle, Major Dundee and Philadelphia are limited to 3000 copies. If that's what you want in the future, fine. I don't.
Well Sleepless In Seattle, Major Dundee and Philadelphia have not sold out so the "limited" 3000 copies must be the correct amount.
 

schan1269

HTF Expert
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
17,104
Location
Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
Real Name
Sam
Jari K said:
With e.g. Criterion, titles usually go OOP because they lose the license. It could take years, or at least some years.So tell me, does TT has the licensing deal for just 3 000 copies, or do they just limit those releases because that's their business model?And for the record, I didn't claim that their "limited" concept is bad for them. If they make a profit and people like their releases, I guess it's working. I just don't understand why titles like Fright Night, Christine, Sleepless in Seattle, Major Dundee and Philadelphia are limited to 3000 copies. If that's what you want in the future, fine. I don't.
Wait, you are harping/complaining about something you don't even understand?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,710
Messages
5,121,077
Members
144,145
Latest member
treed99
Recent bookmarks
0
Top