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Console Wars; Fanboys welcome!

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Kip, Jan 21, 2002.

  1. Kip

    Kip Stunt Coordinator

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    You know, this is really a great forum. The posters here are generally educated, informed, courteous, and intelligent. There are exceptions to be sure, but I’m always impressed by how much people try to help one another here. Heck, all it takes is one visit to the IGN boards to realize how special this forum really is. Some of you (Romier, Morgan, BrianB, Camp, Jason, etc.) are here so often I feel I practically know you and look forward to your posts. Yes Morgan even yours! You’ve really come a long way. [​IMG]
    If there is one area however, that all this feel good stuff consistently breaks down, it’s the subject of console preference. Heretofore known as the “console wars.” You know, I guess I get it. I mean people like to choose sides. People like winners. Listen to a Ford and Chevy guy go at is sometime. PC vs. Mac. Coke vs. Pepsi. Its common, and often funny, so there is nothing new or unusual about Nintendo vs. Sony or Sony vs. Xbox or XBox vs. Intellivision. However it really has no place here. When Romier, myself and countless others argue that it’s all about the games you “fanboys” should listen. Why?
    There is nothing wrong with being a fan of one console or another. But remember, what you are a fan of is that particular consoles games, not its hardware. I don’t walk into the office singing the praises of the Emotion Engine. I don’t say how blown away I am by the Xboxes texture mapping ability. I talk about the beauty FFX. I rave about Halo. It’s the games that matter. So, by all means be a fan of Nintendo or Sony or Microsoft. If you love their games that’s great. But being a fan of one system does not mean you have to do so at the expense of another. Gamecube good does not mean Xbox or Playstation bad. It’s just plain silly to think that way. I love Nintendo’s games. I wouldn’t call myself a gamer if I hadn’t played Mario and Zelda. Does that mean that I must therefore think the Xbox sucks? Are you kidding me.
    Do we need a console winner? Do you fanboys really think that if the Xbox does well that the Playstation or Gamecube will fail? Come on. All three systems will do just fine. Nintendo, much like Apple, has such a strong and loyal fan base that they are practically guaranteed success regardless of what Sony and Microsoft do. With their franchises they will always do well and make a mint in the process. They do their own thing and in my opinion really don’t compete head on with the other guys.
    Now Sony vs. Microsoft is a little more interesting because they are going after the same gamer. Namely me. A Gen-Xer with a lot of disposable income. Which one will win? Both. Sony has already moved 20 million PS2’s and has one of the best software lineups in console history. Microsoft will never displace them or ever sell as many Xboxes. That’s the cold hard truth of the matter but so what. I don’t think Microsoft really cares. They’ve been pretty clear about their goals here. With the Xbox they wanted to establish themselves as serious players in the exploding console market. They want everyone to know they can compete with Sony and Nintendo and are in this thing for the long haul. By that measure, they’ve already won.
    So who wins? The gamer. I love my Gamecube, Xbox, PS2, and especially my Dreamcast. The selection of quality games for these systems is just incredible and I don’t care which system I play them on. If you can only afford one system I understand you need to make a tough decision, but by all means decide based on the games, not the hardware. In the long run you’ll be much happier. And please what ever you decide, don’t player hate on the other systems. You really won’t go wrong with whatever you choose. Thanks for the time.
    Kip
     
  2. Romier S

    Romier S Producer

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    Excellent post and one that really needed be made considering the recent climate. I agree completely and I hope we can stop these nonsensical arguments in the future.
    .....Group hug[​IMG]
     
  3. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    I agree with everything you've said, but recently, it hasn't really been the fault of fanboy comments, but just comments, questions, or facts being pointed out that are perceived as fanboy comments. I pointed out in another thread that a lot of the X-Box's best games were PC ports, even though Bill Gates tried to do everything he could to separate the X-Box from PCs. I was pointing out something ironic, and if anything, it was an insult to Bill Gates, not the X-Box. I even said how I would rather have a lot of great PC games be on consoles than keep them as totally separate markets.

    If someone makes a fanboy comment or says something stupid, just ignore them. Having ten people talk about how stupid the comment is just keeps the thread going and makes no progress. Even when someone asks a question, like which console is more powerful, someone will interpret that as a fanboy comment and then degrade a thread that could have been good, and sadly, many people will follow suit right after them and keep the comments coming for a long while.
     
  4. Neil M

    Neil M Stunt Coordinator

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    Well said everyone. Let's keep discussing the topics at hand and not cry out "fanboy" whenever you perceive it to be that way. That just leads the topic in another direction and it doesn't do us any good. Ignore stupid statements and highlight the good ones. This is probably the best time to be a gamer considering all the options that we have and we shouldn't bash any of the systems in the attempt to prove that one is better than the other. But we also should be able to say things that we may dislike about a particular system without being attacked for it as long as we give our reasoning behind it. Let's be courteous to each other from now on.
     
  5. Gary King

    Gary King Second Unit

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    The problem with some of your posts, Morgan, is that they ignore the facts.

    Of the Xbox's current lineup, only Max Payne is a PC port. There are a number of enhanced console ports (Silent Hill 2, SSX: Tricky, Starfighter, Tony Hawk 2X, and Batman Vengeance), and at least a dozen exclusives.

    And this certainly wasn't the first time that readily-available evidence contradicts what you've said. It's hard not to perceive you as a trouble starter when you make so many incendiary, ill-informed remarks (and frequently continue to argue them, despite being directly refuted).
     
  6. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Looking at the future X-Box games, a lot of them are PC ports, debuting on X-Box then will be on PC, were planned for PC first, or are sequels to PC games. Games that derived on consoles or are brand new on X-Box are not as plentiful as those from PCs.

    Halo, the best X-Box game right now, was for Mac, then PC, now X-Box and soon to be on PC. Wolfenstein will be on X-Box, as will others. Max Payne was ported to X-Box.

    None of that would suggest that the X-Box will have no PC ports, like Bill Gates said. The irony I was pointing out is that all these great PC games will be on the X-Box, and will probably be the best ones on it, even though there aren't supposed to be any.
     
  7. Gary King

    Gary King Second Unit

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    Prior to the MS buy-out, Halo was the nicest tech demo available for TNT2 graphics cards.

    Most of the game was redesigned after the MS buyout (well, most of the game was designed after the MS buyout), so it's not fair to call it a PC port. If anything, the PC version will be a port of the Xbox game; however, no official announcement regarding PC Halo has been made, and the only comments out of Bungie have been that PC Halo will be a very different game than Xbox Halo.

    And I'll call your bluff on the comment that most upcoming Xbox titles are PC-derived. Like I mentioned above, you don't do a very good job of checking your facts... I suggest you try it this time.
     
  8. JasonK

    JasonK Supporting Actor

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    Good post Kip. I've been into games since I was a little tyke and had to go to my buddies houses to play Atari 2600. (Go Pitfall and Keystone Capers!)

    I've been more impressed with the current crop of systems than I was during the 32/64bit era. I've had my PS2 since day one, and I think I've gotten more use out of it than I did my PSX. Same thing with my DC. I just recently picked up a Gamecube and so far I like it a lot, but I'm a little worried that we'll see a drought of great games like the N64 had early in its life-cycle. But provided Mario Sunshine, Zelda, Mario Kart, and Metroid all stay on schedule the big N could really pick up steam by the end of 2002.

    At this rate, the current generation of games may turn out better than my own favorite generation, the 16-bit. The battle between the SNES and Genesis led to some of the greatest games I've ever played, hopefully the same will be said of the PS2/GCN/XBOX 'system wars.'

    Jason
     
  9. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    While reading a recent issue of EGM, I noticed a lot of games for the X-Box were PC ports, more than there were for PS2 and GameCube. Max Payne, Wolfenstein, Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, Halo (originally a PC title), Unreal Championship, Commandos 2, Serious Sam, Black and White, and there are probably others I didn't list or that have yet to be announced. Considering that most of those games are either good or are from series that are good, that means they could be (or are) some the best games on the X-Box. When a console whose selling point was that it was nothing like a PC has that many PC games (most of which will probably be known as the best for the console) it makes me wonder if Bill Gates was thinking about the future of the X-Box when he made his "its nothing like a PC and won't just be PC ports" comment.

    Granted, there aren't many games listed, but considering that they will probably end up being some the best on the console...
     
  10. Scott FP

    Scott FP Agent

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    So what is so bad about a PC port? In some cases I think the console version is better. Take games like NASCAR where they were programmed for the lowest common denominator in the PC market but can be ramped up specifically for a Xbox or PS 2.

    I'm glad they are porting, it gives the customer something to be familiar with plus it is much easier for the programmers to tweak their titles to a specific console. Probably a fact of business to that ports are needed to start with.

    Having a PC for so long I couldn't tell you how frustrating it was to have to read the min. requirements on the back of each title and see that my 500 Mhz PIII machine was starting to falter. NHL 2002 comes to mind...now with Xbox I can buy it and without the worries of freeze ups and sluggish game play. So by porting that game it opens it up to a customer that would never have bought it in the first place.
     
  11. Neil M

    Neil M Stunt Coordinator

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    I think morgan is just trying to say that a main selling point of the X-box was that it wasn't just going to be PC ports. But the fact that there are some titles that are PC ports and the fact that these will probably be the more popular games for the system goes to show that Gates isn't living up to his promise(if he actually made those comments-I don't know). He's not criticizing the games but rather the marketing of microsoft's product. Some people bought the X-box because they thought it was going to be different than the PC. Some people have excellent computers. Why would someone want to spend $300 for a system when they can buy the same games for something they currently have? People have different reasons for wanting to buy a system so this doesn't apply to everyone.
     
  12. Ryan Peter

    Ryan Peter Screenwriter

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  13. Ryan Peter

    Ryan Peter Screenwriter

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    Morgan, you made a nice long stretch of troll-free posting for a long while. You're close to going on my ignore list. There's only so much a person can do with your ridiculous circular arguments.
     
  14. Chris Mannes

    Chris Mannes Stunt Coordinator

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    Okay I was curious. Are Xbox games just rehashes? Would it be better to go somewhere else?

    So I snagged a list off of xbox.com and did a little research. This is by no means comprenhensive, and I'm sure I made some mistakes. But here we go.

    4x4 EVO 2 GodGames

    - Xbox, PC

    AirForce Delta Storm Konami

    - Xbox

    Amped: Freestyle Snowboarding Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    Arctic Thunder Midway

    - Xbox, PS2

    Azurik: Rise of Perathia Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    Batman Vengeance Ubi Soft

    - Xbox, PS2, GameCube

    Blood Wake Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    Cel Damage Electronic Arts

    - Xbox, Gamecube

    Dark Summit THQ

    - Xbox, PS2, Gamecube

    Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2

    - Xbox, PS2

    Dead or Alive 3 Tecmo

    - Xbox

    Fuzion Frenzy Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    Genma Onimusha Capcom

    - Xbox, PS2

    Gun Valkyrie Sega Corporation

    - Xbox

    Halo Microsoft Games

    - Xbox, PC

    Hunter: The Reckoning Interplay Entertainment

    - Xbox

    JSRF: Jet Set Radio Future Sega Corporation

    - Xbox

    Kabuki Warriors Crave Entertainment

    - Xbox

    LOONS — The Fight For Fame Infogrames

    - Xbox

    Mad Dash Racing Eidos Interactive

    - Xbox

    Madden NFL 2002 EA Sports

    - Xbox, PC, PS2, Gamecube

    Malice: Kat's Tale Sierra

    - Xbox

    Max Payne Rockstar Games

    - Xbox, PC, PS2

    MX 2002 featuring Ricky Carmichael THQ

    - Xbox, PS2

    NASCAR Heat Infogrames

    - Xbox, PS, PS2

    NASCAR Thunder 2002 EA Sports

    - Xbox, PS2

    NBA Inside Drive 2002 Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    New Legends THQ

    - Xbox

    NFL Fever 2002 Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    NHL Hitz 20-02 Midway

    - Xbox, PS2, Gamecube

    Nightcaster Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    Project Gotham Racing Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    RalliSport Challenge Microsoft Games

    - Xbox

    Shrek TDK Mediactive

    - Xbox

    SSX Tricky Electronic Arts

    - Xbox, PS2, Gamecube

    Star Wars Obi-Wan LucasArts

    - Xbox

    Star Wars Starfighter Special Edition LucasArts

    - Xbox, PS2, PC

    Test Drive Infogrames

    - Xbox, PS2, PC

    Test Drive Off-Road Wide Open Infogrames

    - Xbox, PS2

    The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind Bethesda Softworks

    - Xbox, PC

    The Simpsons Road Rage Electronic Arts

    - Xbox, PS2, Gamecube

    Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x Activision

    - Xbox, PS2

    TransWorld Surf Infogrames

    - Xbox

    UFC: Tapout Crave Entertainment

    - Xbox

    Unreal Championship Infogrames

    - Xbox, PC

    Wreckless Activision

    - Xbox

    RAW THQ

    - Xbox

    So that's 48 games, 48 Xbox, 7 PC, 17 PS2, 7 Gamecube.

    Now to me. That looks pretty damn good. Of course I'm sure I will now be corrected into oblivion. But I made myself feel better.
     
  15. Gary King

    Gary King Second Unit

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  16. Neil M

    Neil M Stunt Coordinator

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    Ryan, i've read the lists. There are about as many games on each that truly appeal to me right now. More games doesn't equal better games. Some of those gamecube titles that you won't buy will probably end up being excellent games. Plus I am willing to wait for games that are going to be quality games. I don't want games to be rushed just so that the number of gamecube games is equal to x-box's or ps2's.
     
  17. Camp

    Camp Cinematographer

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    Kip,

    Excellent post. You've captured my sentiments to the letter. I too really "feel" like I know these guys. Too bad we're scattered around the world.

    Many of the posts following yours are exactly why I've been shying away from so many threads. We took your thread and made a mockery of it. Better than the IGN boards, I suppose.

    I have one point to add about "fanboys":

    While Morgan may be the posterboy for Fanboys here at HTF I strongly feel many of the more mature regulars represent Morgan's fanboy nemesis...that is, they sometimes feel compelled to act as Xbox fanboys. They say they're console agnostic but the moment a negative comment is directed toward Xbox they spring into action. Why else would the comments of a 15 year-old (albiet a very bright 15 year-old) stir such emotion amongst 30 year-old professional men?

    Am I the only one to notice this?? Even when I agree with their points (90% of the time) I still notice a slight fanboy slant.

    Being a fanboy is fine as long as the individual still stands for the ideals Kip layed out in his post: The games are all that matter. As long as the games are good we all win.

    The moment you remove yourself from that simple dogma you're entering extremist fanboy territory: tread lightly.
     
  18. Romier S

    Romier S Producer

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  19. Ryan Peter

    Ryan Peter Screenwriter

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    I think there's a big difference between talking crap about a system you don't own and defending a system you do own. It's hard to read Morgan's posts without responding. This is probably what he wants, attention, and he gets it. I consider myself a gamer, not a fanboy, but it's tough reading something so misinformed and letting it go. So I am close to putting him on my list, if it will be better for the forum. I think everyone who argues with him should do the same, for the sake of the forum. Think about the Simpsons Halloween episode where the billboard come to life, how do they get rid of them? [​IMG]
     
  20. Carl Johnson

    Carl Johnson Cinematographer

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