Connecting your SVHS and tapes differences. (1 Viewer)

[Luc]

So after reading all the SVHS thread, I plunged into buying one. I mainly use it to record from SAT TV. I have 3 VCRs in three different room and wanted to replace all of them with SVHS. Then when I started connecting it, I realized the problem I would have if I want to replace all of them. There's only 1 S-Video out of the receiver. I bought a switcher but it got really expensive buying the switcher and all the additional cables I needed. Also, I suspected that there's a degradation in the picture quality. So I've decided not to replace all the VCRs and run the one I did buy like this: S-Video out from receiver to S-Video in the SVHS and from S-out in the SVHS to S-in in the TV. Now I have to turn on the VCR to watch that particular TV. Quality of the viewing appear to have degraded by bypassing it through the VCR which is fine because I'm only going to use that setup to record.

My questions for you all who have Super VHS vcr:

1. How are you connecting it? If you are using a switcher, did the quality degrade?

2. What's the difference in quality of VHS vs SVHS tapes? I probably only will be using regular high performance VHS since I record quite a bit of movies for saving. On my JVC 3901, I had it on S-VHS recording and S-VHS ET off, and the recording is great and I can watch it on any of my regular VCRs. Some of you and some sites have mentioned about drilling a hole in regular VHS tape to make a SVHS tape and the recorded result is almost as good as a real SVHS tape. If that is all there is, why are SVHS tapes so much more expensive?

 

[AaronD]

Luc,

I have my JVC 7800 connected to my receiver via S-Video for output and for input I have it connected to my receivers Receivers VCR out via S-Video. The VCR out is basically a second output that displays whatever the active source is.i

This setup works just fine for me and the quality still looks great. I mainly use my 7800 for archiving shows off of my Tivo which is hooked up to my receiver via S-Video as well. In addition I also have a similar setup for composite signals running through the receiver to record off of a friends LD player (SVHS dubs of the original trilogy are excellent).

As for regular VHS tapes vs. SVHS tapes I've never tried the hole method but it is the same thing as SVHS-ET from what I can gather... SVHS-ET just isn't worth it, it's hugely incompatible with other decks and isn't worth the extra time.

The price of SVHS tapes isn't all that bad either, I just ordered JVC 120SV SVHS tapes for $3.72/ea from tapewarehouse.com. At that price I'm not even going to bother buying any VHS tapes, if I need to record standard VHS (rarely) I'll just use these tapes for that as well.

HTH,
Aaron

 

[Rachael B]

Luc never, never drill holes in a tape! If you want to try that, heat a piece of metal and melt the hole. The chards from drilling can damage the tape or worse yet your VCR. I'd take Aaron's advice and order your S-VHS tapes in lots of 10 or more. It's hard for most folks to find local sources of S-VHS tapes for a reasonable price. I mail order most of mine.

If your TV has a really good comb filter, you might do just as well to use the satelite box's composite to go to the TV and give the S-video cable to the VCR. If your TV has a 3-D comb filter definitely hook up this way. If your TV has a lesser filter it could be a toss-up or a bad idea. You should experiment. Best wishes!

 

[Reece]

Luc..
I just picked up a JVC 7800 to archive my DirecTivo. Since the Dtivo has only 1 s-vid output and I want to send s-vid to my Denon recvr as well as the 7800, I picked up a s-vid splitter that would not degrade the signal from markertek
..I then used a Y for the audio.
These guys make broadcast quality equipment so the split signal will remain as strong as the original feed.
I am in the process of hooking everything up now....I'll post my findings after I'm done.

 

[Reece]

The product is a Kramer Pico Tools Series Min.Amp.(PT102S)

 

[Allan Jayne]

S-VHS tapes have a different oxide coating needed for S-VHS. Some regular tapes may come close but they don't tell you which ones.
When taping from satellite TV, it is possible that an S-VHS VCR will have a better comb filter than the satellite tuner box in which case composite to the VCR will be better.
Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm

 

[Luc]

Guys, I have no plans to make any holes anywhere simply because I couldn't replace all my VCRs with SVHS. I stated that it gets too expensive with all the switchers and additional cables I need to purchase and what I notice to be signal degradation with the bypassing. I'm sticking with recording high quality S-Video recording of regular VHS so I can watch them in any room.
I will look into the Y-connector. Hope it isn't too expensive.
You know, not only is there a problem with having only 1 S-out in the receiver, there's the limited number of S-in in my Hitachi 43RP. Video 1 is for the component connection with DVD player, Video 2 is for the the S-video from the receiver, and the Video 3 is in the front so it would look too ugly having the SVHS plugged to the front. Initially I had the SVHS S-Video feed from the S-Video monitor out from the TV but realized that I need the tv on to record and couldn't switch over to watch DVD while recording.
Now the other TVs are older ones so there's only one S-Video in with those. The SVHS is currently plugged to one of these (S-video: receiver to SVHS to TV).
So as excited as I was to plunge into the SVHS world, it just wasn't financially possible even though I'm willing to spend $600 to replace all 3 VCRs. I would need hundreds of dollars in switchers and additional cables.

 

[Rachael B]

Luc, S-VHS looks better than VHS even running on composite. It's true that it's not the most optimum way but I might just do that in your situation. Running composite may reduce colour some but you stille get 400 lines of detail instead of about 220. Best wishes!

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

So I've decided not to replace all the VCRs and run the one I did buy like this: S-Video out from receiver to S-Video in the SVHS and from S-out in the SVHS to S-in in the TV.

You connected the VCR between the receiver’s main “Monitor Out” and the TV? Again I’m lost. What’s the point of this connection? Any receiver with an S-video “Monitor Out” will also have S-video ins and outs for the “VCR,” “Video” etc. connections. So any signal you’re getting from the receiver’s “Monitor Out” is also present at the “VCR” or “Video” connections (the ones with both ins and outs, that is).

Many satellite receivers have more than one set of A/V outputs. You could connect the second set directly to the VCR’s inputs. It won’t matter if the sat receiver has only one S-video out and that is already going to the receiver – you can use the composite video from the sat to the VCR. It will record fine like that, and on playback of the tape the video signal will be present on both the composite and S-video outputs.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Luc]

Many satellite receivers have more than one set of A/V outputs. You could connect the second set directly to the VCR’s inputs. It won’t matter if the sat receiver has only one S-video out and that is already going to the receiver – you can use the composite video from the sat to the VCR. It
will record fine like that, and on playback of the tape the video signal will be present on both the composite and S-video outputs.

Again, I understand that you can go composite, but what's the point of having a SVHS if I'm recording through composite using regular VHS tapes? Buy using S-Vid, I can use S-video mode to record on regular VHS (again, not using SVHS tapes because of reasons stated earlier).

So thanks for all of your inputs. For now, I guess I'll stick with using my newly bought SVHS in my secondary TV via S-Video out from receiver to SVHS and S-video out from SVHS to TV). Unfortunately all my viewbacks will be with this 19inch TV if I want S-Video playback.

 

[AaronD]

Luc,

Just because you have composite in to the VCR doesn't mean that you can't record S-VHS. The VCR's internal comb filter will take care of making sure S-VHS works, and in some cases the comb filter in the VCR might actually be better... Like laser disc.

The main difference between S-VHS and standard VHS is that S-VHS splits the video signal into Y and C (Luminance and Chrominance) and records these to a tape separately. Standard VHS records it 'all in one' so to speak as a composite signal. Regarless of which input or output you use it is recorded the same way and you still get the benifits of 400+ lines of resolution versus ~220 from VHS...

Lots of people suffer from upgraditis and *most* of them have to do a piece at a time... So perhaps you could still upgrade the VCR's and use composite for a while on some of them... It wont hurt, and it'll still be S-VHS....And it still will be TONS better than VHS recordings.

-Aaron

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Luc,

Again, I understand that you can go composite, but what's the point of having a SVHS if I'm recording through composite using regular VHS tapes?

Like Aaron, I get the impression you believe you will get the superior S-VHS picture only if you’re using S-video connections, Luc. Please allow me to disabuse you of this notion.
Back when I got into S-VHS VCRs they were very expensive; I paid $700 for my first top-of-the-line machine in ’95. Well, I thought a little investigation was in order before I sank that kind of money, especially since the TV I had at the time had no S-video connections. So I dug out of my hi-fi magazine archives a review on an early JVC S-VHS machine from the late 80s. I knew an early test would have the most technical information about the format.
The reviewer noted that it took no special equipment to avail oneself of the improvement the format delivered. In fact, the reviewer stated that the remarkably enhanced, sharp and high-resolution S-VHS recordings the machine produced were readily apparent and visible via S-video, composite and standard antenna connections – even on a 13” television! That’s right – he could see the improvement on a cheesy TV connected to the VCR by a cheesy antenna cable. Needless to say, I was delighted to see this and was soon enjoying high-rez S-recordings in my own system, sans any S-video connections.
I’ll tell you the biggest problem with S-VHS VCRS, Luc: Once you get used to them it is painful to look at regular VHS. We had initially planned to use our old VCR as a second machine. Well, as much as we time shift we were realizing the benefits of a second VCR in no time (like being able to watch one tape while another show is taping). And just about as fast we were realizing that the second machine had to be S-VHS. I found a used S-VHS machine (couldn’t afford another $700!) and we sold the lousy VHS VCR (a practically new Sony) to some sucker. We eventually added a third S-VHS VCR, and of course upgraded to a TV with an S-Video input. So now we’re living happily ever after.
Bottom line, Luc, you don’t need all those switchers, converters, etc. to enjoy the improved picture an S-VHS VCR can give you. Let’s say that the ideal scenario – the S-VHS machine with S-video cables all around – gives 100% improvement over regular VHS. Switching to composite cables might give a 10% picture loss – probably less. Well, you’re still miles ahead.
But don’t take my word for it – I suggest doing some tests for yourself and see. Perhaps you’ll find that that one connection combination ultimately delivers a little better picture than the other. But either way it will be light-years better than your old VHS machines.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[AaronD]

VHS does become painful after you see S-VHS.. I'll second that.

Luc, also remember that the higher end VCR's will have other features that will enhance your pre recorded VHS tapes as well. Things like time base correction and frame memory will help clean up the picture and make it as jitter free as possible. I watched a newer rental tape this weekend on my JVC 7800 as was very suprised at the picture quality. Previously I had only viewed very old pre-recorded tapes that were worn.

-Aaron

 

[Luc]

Well, this has been very informative for me.

Wayne,

I see the confusion now over audio and SAT receiver. I thought when I started out saying that I mainly using it to record SAT tv, I took care of that but I didn't because in fact probably many are using their audio receiver to route all the cables. Sorry.

OK, so I got my answers, many of you who have Tivo or SAT receiver are using composite connection. I'll give that a try and go ahead in purchasing additional SVHS vcr. Now, you guys are mentioning recording with SVHS tapes via composite and it shows improvement. Now, these tapes can't be viewed with the regular VCR right? That was the reason I didn't want to use SVHS tapes because until I replaced all the VCRs with SVHS vcr, I need the flexibility of watching the recording program in any room I want. If I'm wrong, tell me. Of course I can test all this out myself when I get a chance.


Thanks everyone!

 

[AaronD]

Luc,

You can record in either VHS or S-VHS mode on S-VHS tapes and VHS on VHS tapes. An S-VHS VCR is capable of producing backwards compatible tapes.... But if you record in VHS mode you wont get the benifits of SVHS.

-Aaron

 

[Luc]

Aaron, "backwards compatible tapes"? What does that mean.

OK, let me see if I got this right. Correct me if I'm wrong:

Using SVHS VCR, I can do the following:

1. Record using regular VHS tapes in VHS or SVHS mode (meaning composite or S-video recording, right?). These tapes can be played in regular or SVHS vcr.

2. Record using SVHS tapes in VHS or SVHS mode and both can be playback with SVHS vcr but only the VHS mode recording can be playback in regular vcr.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Luc,

Happy to see we were able to convince you that S-VHS is viable for you. You won’t be sorry!

To answer your “what can I do” questions, it might be better to “back up the boat” for the sake of clarification.

When S-VHS first came out you could only record in S-mode (sorry for the poor choice of words) with special, very high priced S-VHS tapes (about $15 apiece in those days – ouch!). However, the S-VHS recordings could only be played back on another S-VHS VCR. Put them in a regular VCR and all you got was garbage. This is still true today.

Now, an S-VHS VCR could still make regular VHS recordings on regular VHS tapes (if you were feeling masochistic). And you could make regular VHS recordings on S-VHS tapes as well (a waste of expensive tape!). Either of these could be played back on any standard VHS machine. This is also still true today.

In recent years JVC (and perhaps a few others) developed S-VHS-ET recording. This is S-VHS recording on regular VHS tapes. This does save you some money on tapes, but the picture is not as good as standard S-VHS, and ET tapes can only be played back on a machine with S-VHS-ET capability.

As usual, nothing with home theater is simple – confusion is the order of the day. But hopefully you now know exactly what you can and can’t expect from your new VCRs.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[AaronD]

Luc,

Wayne explained it nicely. With regular VHS tapes you can record in VHS or SVHS-ET mode, but SVHS-ET will not play on a standard VCR. SVHS-ET isn't worth it IMHO, especially since SVHS tapes are relatively cheap if purchased at the right place.

What I meant by backwards compatible is that you can produce standard VHS recordings with your SVHS VCR...Perhaps I wasn't very clear with that wording, sorry 'bout that.

Regardless, I'm recommeding to everyone that asks me about getting a new hi-fi VCR to get a decent SVHS model, they aren't that much more expensive and the quality of SVHS recordings is soooo much better.

What VCR's were you looking at purchasing?

HTH,
Aaron

 

[Luc]

With regular VHS tapes you can record in VHS or SVHS-ET mode, but SVHS-ET will not play on a standard VCR

Hmmmm that's what I thought too but here's what I did with my JVC3901:
I set SVHS on and SVHS ET off in the function setting. Had the S-video input on and used a regular VHS tape and recorded movies in SP mode. They all played back in my other regular VCRs. What happened there? It's not true SVHS mode because it's not a SVHS tape? Those that I record by the same setting using a SVHS tape did not play back in regular vcr as expected.
By the way, when I set the function SVHS to "on", the SVHS ET setting automatic went "off" on the menu.
Now, I always assumed that the term ET in "VHSET mode" means it is recorded in ET mode as oppose to SP mode (speed of the recording). If I'm wrong, then boy it's confusing.
Oh, let me know when it's time to throw stones at me .

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Now, I always assumed that the term ET in "VHSET mode" means it is recorded in ET mode as oppose to SP mode (speed of the recording). If I'm wrong, then boy it's confusing.

”ET” is the recording mode; “EP” is the (slow) recording speed.
Of course it's confusing! If it wasn’t, who would need this Forum?
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt