Confessions of a SACD convert... (1 Viewer)

[peter m. wilson]

Hi Muhammed,

Youve got me a bit confused speaking about speaker cables to the sub. I guess one thing was the plural of cables. Are you using the amp in the sub to power all of your speakers?

I use a Denon 5800/03. becuse it has 2 sets of analogs I use separate multidisc hirez players for each, one of which is the dvp-nc650v 5 disc sacd mltich player.

Since the sub is powered and goes to 20hz I do all the standard connections for the two players and have the single preout cable going to the sub which is activated by the music either going through the analogs or the optical and coax cables connected for either film or the dd ot dts sound tracks I listen to. All speakers are set to small and the Denon handles the corossover wich renders the hz controle on the sub itslf moot and it is set to max.

The peak level limiter for the sub has been set and it has been spl'd to 75db as with each other speaker. For hirez music,only the 5.1 analogs or mltich or ext. or whatever their called on your reciever ONLY they can properly decode dsd or dvd-a. the other inputs are strictly stereo inputs. I actually use a 2ch stereo connection to the cd in from the snd card on my pc as Windows Media Player 9 in XP decodes HDCDs and if the algorythm is in the player the connection must be analog and vice versa.

I've never bought into the bass management thing particularly when it comes to music because if there is any LFE at all and I want more or less I just go to the volume knob for the sub and adjust it there, but I can't remember the last time I touched it.

Anyway, there's lots of stuff going on in those 5.1 analog inputs and their not interchangeable with other analog ins like for a cd or vcr. To many bass management is a bone of contention, to me it's a red herring.

If I've misunderstood what your doing like trying to bi-amp using extra channels please set me straight.

BTW I have a Tosh sd5109 dvd player from oct. 2000 which has the 5.1 analog outs. It does not decode 5.1 dvd-a.

Peter m.

 

[Muhammed]

Hi Peter,

Yeah, I think I did overcomplicate things. I'm only running the pre-out to the sub (the sub has the option of running speaker cables which I assume go through a passive xover, and back to the mains, but you would generally only use this if your receiver didn't have a pre-out for the sub).

If I set all my speakers to 'small' in the SACD player it's fine. It's only when I set them to large for the fronts, and have an SACD playing in 2ch mode. In that case the SACD player does not redirect any bass to the sub through the dedicated sub channel of the 5.1 connection (since it's 2 channel). My receiver doesn't send anything to the sub either in this case, since the receiver's crossover doesn't work on the 5.1 ch connection. I just amplifies and outputs. In essence the SACD is playing in stereo mode, and outputting full signals to my receiver on the left and right channels, which go to the left/right speakers. Nothing gets to the sub.

I suppose this is normal behavior since the SACD won't cross over with the fronts set to large, and in 2ch. SACD nothing dedicated goes to LFE, only L and R. The receiver won't cross the signal over either since it doesn't process anything going to the 5.1 inputs, just amplifies and outputs.

Setting the speakers to small seems to resolve this, although the built-in crossover on the SACD player is a little too high for my tastes (120Hz, non-adustable). So i've been using the regular CD output on the SACD player to send a 2ch signal to the receiver to an input other than the 5.1 input. This way the receiver treats it like any other source, and crosses over to the sub. Not a big deal at all, and i'm just being picky about getting a lower crossover frequency.

Overall each component is doing what it should, and playing 5.1 ch music works perfectly. The 2ch outputs do decode SACD when listening in 2ch mode, I might be wrong, but the SACD spec calls for the data to be encoded in 2ch stereo (I think sony's first SACD players were only 2ch), and then optionally 5.1, and also optionally regular redbook for hybrid disks. Of course, no digital information is output when listening to SACDs. I think half the fun is setting everything up and playing with the variations, trying to get the best sound

 

[peter m. wilson]

Hi,
I may be doing this al wrong but it seems to sound great.
I have 3 dvd players attached to the Denon and I use Totem Model 1 speakers which will go clean to about 40.

My choices are either to cross them over at 60 or because the Denon is THX ULTRA II and the NHT SUB II goes to 21hz +-3 I can tell it I have a sub that goes to 20hz and set the knob to max giving full controle to the Denon.

1 dvd is used for film, the other 2 are used for dvd-a and sacd respectivly.
On all machines I've set speaker size to small and all controle re distance and spl measurments are done by the Denon and everything seems to work fine particularly for film which operates off of a coax connection.

I have not found a great deal of LFE in my 170+ dvd-a and sacd discs, but if I want to increase, (I've never had to decrease) the base, I just go to the controle box for the NHT, (many other types of subs have the controles on the unit itself) and increase the volume.

I have already set the peak level limiter for the sub when I setup the Denon so I don't think it will let me do any harm.
When it comes to film I generally touch nothing as the Denon handles everything from the original setup. There is a switch on the controle module for the NHT that allows me to switch from a flat response to (apparantly a punchier version for fim) but I leave it at flat.

Anyway, perhaps wrongly, I try to give the responsibility for everything "ALMOST" to my reciever, and since I don't have full range speakers I just set them to small in all my units including the reciever.

If some of you feel I'm in error here please explain.

Peter m.

 

[David Judah]

Muhammed,

Have you switched between the CD input and the multi-channel input on the receiver when playing a 2 channel SACD and compared the difference?

I would think by sending out a L&R to an input other than the L&R of the 5.1 input, you are redigitizing the SACD signal for DSP operation and degrading the sound compared to the analog bypass of the 5.1 input.

I would think for most music, which doesn't often have alot of LF content, the advantages of keeping it analog would outweigh redigitizing for bass management(unless your receiver has some exemplary ADCs & DACs).

DJ

 

[peter m. wilson]

Muhammed,
I think what we are saying is that "all analog inputs are not created equal", and any inputs other than those designated for HIREZ players will not benefit from the processing (often costly mosfet/burr-brown thingies with chipset #'s attributed to them)) that these inputs offer.

Please read the manual'S of both the reciever and the player and particularly in the how and where, when it comes to sacd and dvd-a processing.

When it comes to playing the 2ch choice of an sacd or dvd-a the reciever simply does not send a signal to the other inputs.

Peter m.

 

[Muhammed]

For now i've just set all the speakers to small, and gone along with the 120Hz crossover point. I tried switching between the 5.1 inputs and the 2ch inputs (CD) for 2ch SACD music, and can't really tell the difference. This is through an Onkyo TX-SR600, I have the CD input in 'stereo' mode, which according the manual should only pass the signal from the analog inputs, crossover the sub, and allow bass/treble adjustments, without doing any DSP, or other processing on the signal (i'm hoping it doesn't digitize and convert back to analog).

I found another workaround, while playing with the settings for the 5.1 ch. inputs, I can switch it between 5.1 and 'analog' which takes input only from the L/R of the 5.1, and so that also works well (and I can leave the speakers set to large on the SACD player, and the receiver wil handle the xover for the LR channels).

Thanks for everyone's input/help on this.