Component Video Wire

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Bill Griffith, Jan 10, 2002.

  1. Bill Griffith

    Bill Griffith Supporting Actor

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    New here.

    Been reading some post the past couple of days while my username got excepted.

    Anyway:

    I got this new house and a New TV the 47" Panny. Must say extremely happy so far and I haven't even gotten the component video hooked up yet.

    Now about the component video Cable: I've been reading the boxes of Monster Cable, but nothing say the wrie gauge size.

    What type of wire would be used If I want to make my own? Also, the ends look like the ends of an RCA cable, what are those types of ends called, and where can I get some?

    I have access to all sorts of cable and wire of just about any gauge from 7 1/2 to 18+, free.

    I don't realy wnat to spend the money for 5 Meters of cable.
     
  2. Brandon B

    Brandon B Second Unit

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    To make top quality component video cables, you should be using an RG6 cable with a 18ga copper core (not copper clad steel or anything like that). Belden makes some of the best ones. Top choice would be Belden 1695A, second 1694A. Canare and others also make some good cables. THese can be bought by the foot at some places, Anixter cable, Boldercables.com, etc.

    For connectors, Canare makes "true" 75ohm RCA connectors, which are best for video and digital audio connections. They are a few $ each. The model differs depending on which cable you select. Check Canare's web site to pick after you decide on a cable. Many of them are available at Markertek.com.

    If you want to get fancy, you can also add a second copper braid shield around the coax.

    You can make a decent set however with any quality RG6, and good quality RCA connectors. Haven't used the Monster cables, so I don't know how they compare. Unless you are talking about their high end, however, I'm sure you could make something as good.

    BB
     
  3. Bill Griffith

    Bill Griffith Supporting Actor

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    that looks like the info I was looking for.

    Thanks man

    Like I said I can most wire free, of whatever type.

    The connectors I'd have to buy.

    so the Belden 1695A would be the best choice for cable? Interesting I think we have meters of that stuff in the scrap pile.
     
  4. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Bill: Welcome to HTF![​IMG]
    I support the idea of making your own cables. But there is a bit of skill involved.
    First, you must make sure to cut the 3 cables to exactly the same length.
    Second, you must try to get a good quality RCA plug and do a good job of attaching it to the end of each cable. The Canare plugs are about the best.
    The connecting...thats the difficult part.
    If you have "piles" of the stuff lying around, chances are you have some experienced techs who can attach the plugs for you. Go to them and ask them for help or to teach you how to do it.
    If you want to do it yourself, read on:
    Unless you are a skilled cable-maker, your best chance for success is to buy plugs/cables/crimpers all from the same company so you are sure they fit together. (It all looks the same dimensions until you start trying to mix brands).
    Here is a web site from one of our members on how to do this:
    http://www.bus.ucf.edu/cwhite/theater/theater.htm
    Good Luck.
     
  5. Bill Griffith

    Bill Griffith Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for the info man, I'll do these on my own using the tools we have here.

    Went and talked to some of the ET's and found out that we basically run this stuff all over the place, the connectors are the only thing I got to get.

    Looking for a local place to pick them up.

    One interesting thing though.

    Had this discussion.

    The guy said Since I was only going to run 20' lengths that I really wouldn't notice a difference between the RG6 and an RG59. The charts I've seen prove this. The change is shown in the 100's of feet not just a few.

    So in a since the improvement would be similar to me waiving my arms and expecting to see a change in the orbit of the earth around the sun.

    So what are the noticable gains in running RG6 over RG59?
     
  6. Brandon B

    Brandon B Second Unit

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    RG6 is rated for higher bandwidth. Your friend is most likely right, you might not see much difference at the short length you're making, especially in an NTSC signal. Down the road with HD and all, you might be better off with the RG6. Since your talking about no difference in cost since the cable's free, why wouldn't you go RG6? It's one of those last half of a percent things.

    The equivalent cable for RG59 is Belden 1506A plenum, or 1505A for PE jacket. For those cables, you would use the Canare RCAP C4F connector. Markertek definitely has those. For the 1695A, you use the RCAP C53, which Marktertek does not appear to stock. Have.com or Haveinc.com (I forget which they are) will sell them in small qty tho.

    BB
     
  7. Mark Rich

    Mark Rich Second Unit

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    Bill

    If you have to buy cable then go with the Belden 1505a (RG59) or 1694a cables. I and many others have noticed no improvement in performance with the plenum rated 1506a/1695a cables. Save the money and buy a DVD or two.

    If its free (I'm envious) then use it. You may as well get some extra and make a very,very good digital coax cable as well.
     
  8. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Bill: Here is what Good Canare (High Def compatible) RG6 coax looks at the end of 100 feet as higher and higher frequencies are shoved down it:
    [​IMG]
    Your tech is correct that the attenuation for 20 feet would be minor between RG59 and RG6.
    But look at the area between 1 Mhz and 100 Mhz - see how it slopes down slowly. RG59 coax would drop down much sharper.
    This means your Blue wire would still have lots of signal, but the green wire will be reduced more and the red - reduced a lot more.
    You see the problem: The different signals are attenuated different ammounts. This is called "slant".
    Thats why you use RG6 (and the good Belden/Canare stuff). You have to look at what the cable does to the lowest and highest frequency.
    Example: A "Perfect" cable would start with:
    Blue: 3.00 volts
    Green: 3.00 volts
    Red: 3.00 volts
    And end with:
    Blue: 2.0 volts
    Green: 2.0 volts
    Red: 2.0 volts
    You see, the "Perfect" cable reduces all the signals the same ammount.
    The "real" cable could start with the same, but end with:
    Blue: 2.0 volts
    Green: 1.5 volts
    Red: 1.0 volts
    The Red colors are greatly reduced compared to the others.
    So it's not just the attenuation (reduction) thats the problem. It's that it reduces one color a lot more than the other.
    RG6 coax has a gentler slope/drop off than RG59 so it would be a better choice for Component video.
    Does this help?
     
  9. Bill Griffith

    Bill Griffith Supporting Actor

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    Great help guys.

    Learned exactly what I needed.

    Luckily I found some RG6 I should be able to make up 3 13' (I have a coiled length of about 44') sections.

    I was worried though for awhile all I was able to find was some RG59 and a jumble of who knows what. Now I just got to get some connectors. Thanks for the info on the store to get the Canare's.

    Later Guys.
     
  10. Sihan Goi

    Sihan Goi Second Unit

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    What's wrong with a copper clad steel conductor? I'm using 3 Belden RG6 broadband/CTV cables for my DVD component cables, and IIRC the conductor is not copper, but steel.
     
  11. Bill Griffith

    Bill Griffith Supporting Actor

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    huh?

    IIRC?

    Not familiar with that term

    All cables I've see use a copper conducter. you sure your looking or talking about the shielding.

    Using steel, in place of copper as the conducter would increase the line resistance.
     
  12. Brian_C

    Brian_C Stunt Coordinator

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    IIRC = If I Recall Correctly

    I'm curious as to why Belden 1694a/1695a is so recommended. From the specs, 1694a has a tinned copper braid shield, which is generally not as good as plain copper. Belden 1695a is nothing more then 1694a with a plenum jacket, which should absolutely have no effect on signal transfer. The only reason 1695a is more expensive is because you can legally run it through the walls (depending on local building code).
     
  13. Bill Griffith

    Bill Griffith Supporting Actor

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    I believe it has to do with running through walls and cielings which is what the plenum rating is for.

    Your right in assumning that it does absolutly nothing for the signal strength or Capcitance or Resistance, or whatever your looking at.

    Bel9248 is another example. It has no plenum rating and their is no foam filling.

    This cable is similar to 1695A in all other aspects except for cost.

    1695A will run about 2 to 4 times more than 9248 /foot.
     
  14. Chris White

    Chris White Second Unit

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    Nice post Bob. Very informative.
     
  15. Sihan Goi

    Sihan Goi Second Unit

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    Bill I'm not certain its a steel conductor, but it is silver in color, and not copper. It has a white PVC jacket, and is labelled Belden DUOBOND, used for broadband and CATV applications.
     
  16. Bill Griffith

    Bill Griffith Supporting Actor

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    Belden DuoBond

    Consists of an aliminium-polyester-aluminium-laminate wrapped around the cable's dielectric core (This is why it looks silver). Provides 100% physical coverage which increases flex life, and also has an extra layer of adhesive bonding the shield and the dialectic core this improves shield reliability.
     
  17. Bill Griffith

    Bill Griffith Supporting Actor

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  18. Sihan Goi

    Sihan Goi Second Unit

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    Hmmn, perhaps that's what I've got, not really sure of that...but I guess it'll do for a component video cable just as well as any other RG59/RG6 coaxial cable?
     
  19. Brandon B

    Brandon B Second Unit

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    Copper clad steel cores are actually common in many coax cables. They are used where strength is required of the cable. The tradeoff is obviously that the signal transmissioon is not optimum.
    If you're going for the "last few percent" of quality which most of us here are, this is not the cable you really want to use. We use it at my employer where the cable must survive very long pulls without damage or where it will be supporting its own weight for some distance or be subject to other stress. Copper, being more ductile, can be damaged in these circumstances.
    As for 1695a vs. 1694a, yes the ONLY difference is a teflon jacket. The issue here is dielectric constant. Teflon's is constant over the uadio and video frequency bands, PE's variees. This means over a long run, you will get different levels of attenuation as noted above. Now one might argue that since this jacket is not between the 2 conductors, its dielectric value is irrelevant, however, the field does not go to zero immmediately and so it can have a small but measureable effect.
    So here we are probably talking about "last few tenths of a percent" of quality. I would bet big cash that I CANNNOT tell the difference between 1694 and 1695 video cables even with a highend HDTV and 50 foot cables. However, since Bill initially stated he gets all his cable for FREE, why not go with the 1695? Even if there's no visible difference to him, it's more fire-resistant.
    Anyone interested in reading more about the issues with teflon vs. other dielectrics, have a look at Jon Risch's site. Good source for high end DIY cable ideas.
    http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/cables.htm
    BB
     
  20. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Bob,
    I think you may be confusing what is being compared on that graph. This is not a comparison of the signals from the red, blue, and green cables. This is a comparison of the different Canare cables. The red is Canare's V-5CFB (RG6), the green is Canare's V-4CFB (RG59), and the blue is Canare's V-3CFB (mini coax). This is showing how the attenuation from a 100m length of each cable compares based on the frequency being transmitted.
    Again, it has nothing to do with the red, blue and green signals. At least not from this graph. Also, in this graph the red (RG6) cable has the LEAST attenuation while the blue (mini coax) cable has the most attenuation.
    Brian
     

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