Complete Series vs One-at-a-time for Classic Series (1 Viewer)

[lj01]

I'm curious (and would be much interested in any industry insiders that might chime in) as to where it's making most sense, business-wise, to release complete series vs one-at-a-time these days.


We can probably all agree that profit & loss probably rests on units sold in the first 3-6 months of release, getting folks that will pay the earliest and highest price points.


I would assume that years ago, when TV-on-DVD was first getting started, that profits could be maximized by releasing one-at-a-time. For I Love Lucy or The Brady Bunch, those buyers were there and more than willing to pay the early price point.


But in these, the mature days of TV-on-DVD, it's more or less titles that have less broad appeal. Taking into mind the recent VEI announcement - shows such as Barnaby Jones - would VEI get most bang by releasing a complete series or by releasing one-at-a-time, maybe one every 6-9 months? Of course a complete series comes at a lower per-season cost. In the Barnaby Jones example, generally the same people would buy each season upon release as would buy the complete series (although it could be argued that more people would buy a complete series). So, releasing the remaining 7 seasons at a retail point of $40 per season over the course of say 3-5 years vs a complete series at a retail point of, say, $199? I suppose when you take time value of money into consideration also, it may even out. Thus, it would generally appear that complete series is the best way to maximize profits (and then sell individual seasons to pick up a few more $).


That's just my general sense, I'm assuming the studios and VEI/Shout/whomever have an army of CPAs to figure this stuff out.


The industry has always been somewhat shrouded in mystery, from the sense of sales figures to what might be holding up releases, etc. There's not a lot of transparency, in general, which is probably true of most industries.


So, it's all guesses and conjecture, but I'm curious what others might think...or know?

 

[Ron1973]

I would rather have the complete series in one fell swoop so as to be assured it was coming out. Nothing frustrates me more than a series being stalled out.

 

[bmasters9]

I would rather have the complete series in one fell swoop so as to be assured it was coming out. Nothing frustrates me more than a series being stalled out.

That was very true of Hart to Hart for me. Sony got the first two (1979-81) out, and then very inexplicably no more; thankfully, Shout! saved the day, and we're about to have all of that series out.

 

[dana martin]

all the studios are guilty somewhat of this, then there is the wrath of music changes because of clearance issues, right now my biggest complaint would be with Universal, and its handling of Alfred Hitchcock Presents, how long if ever is it going to be finished, hell at this point why hasn't the first season been re-released on non double sided disc, or better yet invest the money and do HD transfers, seems other classic tv, understands what is going to be needed for future HD broadcast and syndication

 

[smithbrad]

Another consideration is upfront costs and time. For CBS to remaster each season from film elements takes time. Would you rather wait until all or done or be able to get seasons earlier to enjoy? Also, what if there is a need to recoup costs from the remastering of season 1 to help support the efforts for season 2? Not to forget, what if the series doesn't sell as well as hoped, committing upfront the total cost to do a series just to find out it doesn't have the market appeal is risky. One reason we now have MOD programs to cut down on supply and risk.


I think with VEI and their complete series releases they have typically taken over series that were stalled for a while. That provided time to get a good idea on what the market is, and may even mean the studio is more willing to let it go cheaper. Also, stalled series are probably the best candidate for a full series release since it is also known that later season don't sell as well. So as along as you don't over commit on numbers produced and you can keep the licensing costs down, complete series may be the best option. Especially, since you may have had to commit to the full series from a licensing perspective.

 

[lj01]

Excellent points, Brad. That makes sense as far as the trickle-out theory is funding remastering and such and keeping those releases coming.


And I agree that it seems the best way to get the stalled series out (and likely most profitable) is to put out complete series, which I think in general, we'd all agree is ideal from a consumer standpoint. I recall last year when "The Jeffersons" complete came out last year, there was no question that I was going to pick it up ASAP instead of waiting it out for the individual seasons 7-11 releases (which will just be at season 8 this summer and probably take another year at least) - even though I already had seasons 1-6. Sure, people will complain, but if that's what it takes to get these out - and complete no less - double dipping is fine with me.

 

[Ron1973]

I love the job CBS has done with their hi-def transfers. It will be disappointing if the unreleased seasons of a show aren't to the same standard but it is what it is. In the case of The Beverly Hillbillies I'm relying on Columbia House VHS tapes and some off-air recordings from local TV in the early 90's from worn 16mm prints recorded in SLP mode. I guarantee off the shelf masters would be better than those!

 

[Oliver Ravencrest]

I like having the option of buying the complete series or buying individual seasons. Some shows I'd gladly buy the whole thing while others like Happy Days, I only only want seasons 1 through 5 and maybe 6 and 7, not interested in the rest. On some long running series, I find it easier to come up with the money for a season at a time than all at once.

 

[Richard Gallagher]

all the studios are guilty somewhat of this, then there is the wrath of music changes because of clearance issues, right now my biggest complaint would be with Universal, and its handling of Alfred Hitchcock Presents, how long if ever is it going to be finished, hell at this point why hasn't the first season been re-released on non double sided disc, or better yet invest the money and do HD transfers, seems other classic tv, understands what is going to be needed for future HD broadcast and syndication

I refuse to pay $45 for Season Six on DVD-R. All seven seasons were released on pressed DVD in Australia, and I have a friend in Melbourne who can pick up 6 & 7 for me.

 

[jcroy]

I'm curious (and would be much interested in any industry insiders that might chime in) as to where it's making most sense, business-wise, to release complete series vs one-at-a-time these days.


We can probably all agree that profit & loss probably rests on units sold in the first 3-6 months of release, getting folks that will pay the earliest and highest price points.

In practice, I don't think it matters at all.


The movie studios (and their third party outsourcers) probably only really care about these customers who are willing to buy in the first month or so, at the amazon/WalMart/BestBuy discounted MSRP "first month" prices.


Personally as a bonafide "bottom feeder" scavenger, I strongly suspect the movie companies largely don't give a damn what I believe. Everything I say/rant about dvd/bluray releases largely falls on deaf ears, other than amongst other like-minded "scavengers".



But with all that being said, I only really care whether a tv show is still releasing anything. Whether due to a particular current tv show ending and/or the dvd releases are stalled, I find it is a relief when I don't have to think about any future releases anymore for a particular show.

 

[jcroy]

(This may sound like "blasphemy" on this forum).


As a recent example, I felt relieved that Fox was not going to continue releasing any further seasons sets of The Simpsons. A few days after that announcement, I picked up the rest of The Simpsons season sets which I didn't have previously. (Previously I only had the first five seasons).


More generally when it is announced that a particular tv show is cancelled or is renewed for a final season, I actually feel relieved and look forward to picking up the remaining season sets I don't have. For example, recent cancelled shows like Revenge, The Mentalist, the revived Dallas, Continuum, Falling Skies, Strike Back, The Newsroom, etc ...

 

[Darby67]

I refuse to pay $45 for Season Six on DVD-R. All seven seasons were released on pressed DVD in Australia, and I have a friend in Melbourne who can pick up 6 & 7 for me.

I completely agree!


Darby

 

[jcroy]

I completely agree!


Darby

I largely avoid buying dvd-mod/dvd-r releases too, even if it is a tv show/movie that I really like. (So far I have not purchased any yet).


For example, I turned down the dvd-mod/dvd-r releases of shows like:


- the revived Melrose Place

- State of Affairs

- Almost Human

- subsequent seasons of Without a Trace

- Bob's Burgers

- etc ...

 

[jcroy]

As far as I'm concerned, a tv show going dvd-mod/dvd-R is (metaphorically) the same as a show being "stalled".

 

[Hasslein]

Shout! Has it backwards though. It is cheaper to buy the individual season sets than the complete series... At least that's the case with Kotter & WKRP

 

[JayHink]

-I like being able to grab a particular season off the shelf, as opposed to unbundling it
-that said, I don't mind complete series, especially if that's the only way it all gets released
-I'm less bothered these days having a season or two, if that's all that's released. I enjoy seeing & owning what's available, & maybe my purchase helps another release's chances/maybe not.
-I don't mind MOD releases. I appreciate studios finding new ways to get releases to me. I've had no trouble with MOD playback, personally. Personally burned discs from 2004 still seem to work for me.
-I assume less costly single seasons are more attractive to the mass market, but collector's will dish out for more costly complete sets, limited editions, & 'classic' or 'obscure'. They know this & I'm sure they guage it case-by-case.
-10 or 15 years ago I didn't think I'd have 95% of what's actually been released for tv on dvd.

Just the thoughts in my head at the moment. I guess it just goes to show that there's as many consumer theories & differences as there are DVD releases. My concluding wish is that they just keep on makin' & releasin' em!

 

[BobO'Link]

I refuse to pay $45 for Season Six on DVD-R. All seven seasons were released on pressed DVD in Australia, and I have a friend in Melbourne who can pick up 6 & 7 for me.

I agree. MOD prices are *far* to high considering the product. While the claim is such pricing is due to lower sales, these titles being nitch/cult, and it actually costing more to produce a MOD, I see too many "Initial quantities of this release will be traditionally replicated (pressed) in anticipation of high consumer demand" disclaimers and formerly pressed titles *going OOP* then jumping to MOD to believe this. I think it's more about control and keeping prices artificially high. When places like Deepdiscount can undercut, sometimes significantly, Amazon (who does their own burn-on-demand) and purchasing directly from the studio this seems to be the case as you'd think the studio (and Amazon) could sell direct for much less than any 3rd party since *they* make the copy and bypass the middleman.


Complete series releases avoid such scenarios but I'm a bit disturbed by Shout's current pricing strategies. Where with most other studios it is often more cost effective to purchase a full series they seem to be taking the reverse stance, which goes totally against their former pricing strategy. The full release is often higher in cost than if you just wait and pick up the individual seasons separately. Most Shout releases in the past have been lower in cost upon release, going up after a week or two, and not dropping in price much, if at all, until years later. It's making me reconsider my "Purchase the full series upon release" policy with Shout! product.


I *love* VEI and the way they typically release product, frequently releasing full series initially and *maybe* indvidual seasons later.


When studios can license a series to Shout! or VEI or others who then do a *full* series at "reasonable" prices and seemingly making good profits from such releases, it truly makes you wonder why the studios are not doing the releases themselves. Do they *really* have such little faith in their product?


I generally prefer the full series up front. While there have been, and will continue to be, series of which I'm unsure and want to "test the waters" with a single season purchase, either because I don't know if I'll still like it after all these years or have never seen a program before, I like the option of a full release up front, even on such series, as I know I'll be able to get it all should I like that "test" season purchase.

 

[dhammer]

I would rather have the complete series in one fell swoop so as to be assured it was coming out. Nothing frustrates me more than a series being stalled out.

I have to agree. Maybe they can make more money by releasing individual sets--if they sell. However, after dealing with a number of stalled shows, I would gladly pay more to get it all in one shot.

 

[ChrisALM]

My problem with season by season releases is that you never know if a particular show will ultimately be completed. I understand a company's financial need to make a profit, so licensing out seems a viable solution. However, we see some companies that don't want to do that - like Sony with The Donna Reed Show, or that don't care about their older properties, like Fox.

Although I prefer pressed discs to MOD, at least Warners is making their older content available - and they seem to finish much of what they start. I hope this new CBS/P - VEI deal works well and proves profitable, maybe other studios will rethink their approach and we will have some more shows completed.

 

[jcroy]

Psychologically, I find being on a dvd "treadmill" for a particular tv show to be somewhat anxiety inducing.


In the past, I've been on numerous other "treadmills" which created the same type of intense anxiety. For example, "treadmills" like:


- ongoing comic book series

- music cd releases of various rock bands still recording new albums

- various long running novel series (ie. Star Wars, Stargate, Star Trek, etc ...)

- etc ...


So when a particular tv show ends and/or the dvd releases are stalled, that particular anxiety completely disappears for me.