Complete Carson Tonight Shows coming to Antenna TV (1 Viewer)

[Jack P]

If he was only screening shows from 72-92 though then I guess we can forget about seeing any of the extant NY episodes from 69-71 that *do* exist intact. Back in the day when you could search the database which Sotzing took down years ago, I remember counting up at least a couple dozen episodes that were listed as intact.


It is possible though that we might see some shows from the two road trips back to NY that Johnny did after the move which were in November 1972 and May 1973.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

If he was only screening shows from 72-92 though then I guess we can forget about seeing any of the extant NY episodes from 69-71 that *do* exist intact. Back in the day when you could search the database which Sotzing took down years ago, I remember counting up at least a couple dozen episodes that were listed as intact.


It is possible though that we might see some shows from the two road trips back to NY that Johnny did after the move which were in November 1972 and May 1973.

I wish they hadn't taken that database down. I think people could still find it useful.


Of course, you can access that database by signing up for a clip-licencing account, but I suspect they'd want to verify your credentials and wouldn't just grant access to anybody.


If someone knows any differently, I'll sign up!


I didn't really expect to see any of the existing pre '72 episodes. I'm sure the archive are holding those back for their own use, as i bet they'd be very commercially viable (due to their rarity, if nothing else).


Do none of the NYC episodes from earlier in '72 (before the move) exist?

 

[Jack P]

I'm not sure about earlier NY shows from 72. I've only seen a clip from the last official week in NY on-line, which ironically was a Joey Bishop guest hosted week! And that I think was a primitive home recording.

Incidentally, the title of this thread should be changed because it's now increasingly clear that these reruns are not "complete" shows in that EVERYTHING associated with music has been cut. That means we get zero music guest performances in these shows even if that means totally awkward and nonsensical edits like what we saw in last night's show from 1976 with Carol Lawrence. I think over time this is going to become more irritating if we also see Sotzing not make available any more intact shows (save for band breaks) on DVD. Although I am not one who views music guests as the primary part of these shows, they are a part of the show's legacy and shouldn't be so arbitrarily cast aside.

 

[John Karras]

It's interesting that the Dick Cavett shows that have been running on the Decades Channel have the band breaks intact, and sometimes have included that band feature during the 12:30 audience pan. The musical paranoia doesn't appear to be the issue it is with the Tonight Show hacking.

 

[Dave Lawrence]

Well, we did get to see Vlasta the Polka Queen perform with the band a few weeks ago.
(That's probably the only time we'll see the band outside of momentary banter during the monologue.)

Like Jack, I don't consider the music acts to be the main event, but it's disappointing not to have them, and awkward in how they've been extracted.

Still, to get to see great segments for the first time like last night's main interview where Johnny sets aside his questions and just swaps stories with Orson Welles, if it means cutting out a musical performance, I can live with it.

 

[Jack P]

There is one bit of classic Carson comedy we're losing to this edit approach. Whenever Johnny would have a monologue that was really bombing out, the band would suddenly start playing "Tea For Two" and Johnny would do a dance. I've seen at least one show in the reruns where I can tell they replaced the music on *that*!

I agree that as presented, these reruns are certainly light years ahead of the old "Carson's Comedy Classics" but my concern at this point is that Sotzing isn't going to continue to make available uncut shows on DVD as a supplement to these reruns.

 

[HonkyTonkMan]

I've been watching the Johnny Carson episodes on Antenna TV daily ever since Antenna TV started airing them on January 1st.

The only complaint that I have about Antenna TV's airing of the episodes is that some of the episodes have had their musical segments totally cut out.

For example, Diane Schuur's singing performance was totally cut out of Antenna TV's airing of the Tim Conway and Harry Anderson episode from March 17, 1987.

I think that Shelly West did sing during the original broadcast airing of the July 28, 1983 episode that featured Joan Collins and Samantha Smith, but Shelly West was nowhere to be found during Antenna TV's airing of the episode.

Kenny G did perform during the original broadcast airing of the Sean Penn and Richard Pryor episode from October 9, 1986, but Kenny G was nowhere to be found during Antenna TV's airing of the episode.

Thelma Houston's singing performance from the March 10, 1989 episode that also featured Michael Landon and comedian John Mendoza will be completely edited out from Antenna TV's upcoming airing of the episode.

I would have preferred for Antenna TV to not air any of the episodes that they haven't been able to acquire the musical clearance rights for rather than air versions of those particular episodes where the musical performances have been completely edited out.

Earlier tonight (March 19th), Antenna TV aired a May 7, 1974 episode that featured actor Buddy Hackett, fire-breather Jan Munroe, artist Dong Kingman and singer Cass Elliot.
It turns out that the Tonight Show band didn't even show up for that episode due to the musician's strike that was occurring at the time.
Cass Elliot did say during the final segment that she originally was planning on singing during that episode, but couldn't sing during that episode due to there being no Tonight Show band in attendance that day.

Jan Munroe is actually a man, not a woman.
Antenna TV stupidly listed Jan Munroe as an actress. Jan Munroe is actually a male fire-breather.

In the coming weeks, Antenna TV will be airing Johnny Carson episodes that featured Dean Martin, jazz drummer Buddy Rich, music composer Marvin Hamlisch, violinist Itzhak Perlman and singer Katrina Leskanich since Antenna TV has recently added those five episodes to the Johnny Carson episode guide on their official website.
The episode descriptions of those five episodes on Antenna TV's official website mention all five of those singers/musicians by name.

 

[Jack P]

I agree, I would prefer that they not air *any* shows that require hacking an entire guest out because that shows they're not making a good faith effort to even *try* to clear something in that area.

 

[Eric Vedowski]

Interested parties should sign up at https://licensing.johnnycarson.com/.
The site is for people interested in licensing clips but I signed up with no problem when the site first started. You can watch whole shows-although there's a watermark over the image. They also have a transcript for each show and/or a breakdown by segment. Looking up Kenny G, on that show he performed "Songbird." I just watched it. Cass Elliot didn't sing on the episode mentioned.
Sometimes the transcripts don't have the correct song titles-or even any song title. "So and so sings a song." It doesn't appear that any shows with guest hosts are included. You also have to get a new password sent to you fairly frequently, not sure why. Otherwise-hours of fun.

 

[Dave Lawrence]

I would much rather have Antenna TV not air the episodes that they haven't been able to get the musical clearance rights for rather than air versions of those particular episodes where the musical performances are completely edited out.

I definitely understand and agree that it would be best for them to work on getting musical appearances cleared whenever possible. But I will disagree and say that I'm glad that they are working around the performances when they can't be cleared. For example, I would hate to have missed out on the Richard Pryor appearance simply because a Kenny G performance couldn't be cleared. Same with this week's Tim Conway show. (I realize it's subjective, though, as the musical acts, while often good, aren't as big a draw for me as the comedy and interviews,)

 

[Jack P]

Well they did leave in Itzhak Perlman's musical performance on last night's airing (one would assume clearing a classical piece does not present the same obstacles) so it will be interesting to see if Rich performs on the show that airs tonight.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Any word if Carson's late night competitors of the 80's and 90's (David Letterman and Arsenio Hall) will ever be rerun on Antenna TV in the future? In my opinion, it would be cool if they did that.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Any word if Carson's late night competitors of the 80's and 90's (David Letterman and Arsenio Hall) will ever be rerun on Antenna TV in the future? In my opinion, it would be cool if they did that.

I kind of doubt it. I know that some of Late Night with David Letterman was sold into reruns on A&E in the early '90s (which Letterman was not happy about), and they later appeared on E! and finally, TrioTV (before it went belly-up).

No idea if Antenna (or someone else) would be up for these, or if Letterman has any say-so by this point, but I, for one, wouldn't mind to see some "classic Dave" again.

Since Letterman has more control over The Late Show, I doubt we'd be seeing any of those in reruns, but I suppose Late Night is still a possibility, since it's been syndicated before (and as recently as 2005).

 

[Jack P]

Well after seeing this happen again the other night, Sotzing IMO *really* needs to clear "Tea For Two" because it is so disruptive to the integrity of the original program when Johnny has one of those moments where the monologue would bomb and the band would start playing "Tea For Two" and he'd do a dance. Hearing a piece of canned generic music that doesn't match what Johnny's doing on-stage ruins the humor of the moment.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Well after seeing this happen again the other night, Sotzing IMO *really* needs to clear "Tea For Two" because it is so disruptive to the integrity of the original program when Johnny has one of those moments where the monologue would bomb and the band would start playing "Tea For Two" and he'd do a dance. Hearing a piece of canned generic music that doesn't match what Johnny's doing on-stage ruins the humor of the moment.

As much as I am an advocate for using original music wherever possible, I have to disagree. The replacement music doesn't "ruin" the comedy for me, although I did not have any prior association of "Tea for Two" being originally associated with this bit of Johnny's.

I also don't hold Jeff Sotzing personally responsible. If US music clearance rules weren't as strict and complicated as they are these days (and if royalty payments weren't so expensive), I'm sure Carson Productions and Antenna would be all for clearing everything. We all know from previous experience with the Carol Burnett Show that clearing live weekly music with a large band/orchestra is expensive/complicated, and is perhaps too costly/troublesome for the sake of reruns on a channel whose demographic is the same demographic for CraftMatic adjustable beds.

We just have to accept the Antenna TV reruns for what they are: the best-possible compromise they could make for inexpensive reruns to be as complete as possible. Would we have liked the original music included? Of course. Would we have preferred the guest musical acts included. Definitely.

But, would we prefer no reruns at all, or another run of Carson's Comedy Classics to what we're getting? Not me! Would we prefer

In a perfect world, I would prefer the complete, original shows (with the original opening/closing titles), but at least we have a decent selection of DVDs and a few digital downloads for that.

I just hope Carson Productions doesn't decided to permanently shelve the DVDs/downloads now that they have a (I assume) lucrative TV deal in place.

 

[Jack P]

I can live with cutting musical performances for these reruns. It's only when it affects the comedy that I have a problem and I'll admit I do associate "Tea For Two" with these moments based on many years of watching Carson when he was first on and in the shows collected over the years.

I do enjoy what we're getting in the reruns, but I think if there are critical areas that need to be addressed they should be. Remember, initially Sotzing wanted to use a canned recording of the theme music on all home video releases until the negative feedback got him to clear the theme music for all its live performances.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Jack, you think you can help me here, please?

A guy named Jason Cranmer is collecting Johnny Carson episodes. Some from Antenna TV, others from the original NBC run. He's not sure when the episode with Rosemary Clooney, George Segal and Richard Jenning aired. Maybe you can help? I think it might have aired on August 10, 1989, but I want to be sure, first.

If I find anymore unknown airdates, I'll ask you.

http://myhobbysite-sportsandgameshows.weebly.com/

 

[Jack P]

It is the correct date.

 

[Sam Posten]

Do we have anyone here with a super great mind for guest appearances? I've been searching google on and off for years trying to find a specific clip of a guest who was on, I think it was a big time actor, maybe Jack Nicholson, who had a large painting on with him. He told the story of working with the artist to commission the painting, he wanted a really strong indian portrait and he didn't care about the background, he told the guy "just throw some clouds behind him but I don't want you to charge me for the clouds", and when he got the painting it was a much bigger size with a smaller Indian figure overlooking a vast vista with amazing looking skyline, and the punchline was that the artist had named the picture "No charge for the clouds". My google-fu has failed to return even a nip of a hint as to who this was. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me and it wasn't even Carson. Dunno. Any help finding it would be appreciated.

Edit: Ah hell, I just ran my search again today without Carson, and it turns out it was Burt Reynolds! The painting IS called "No charge for the clouds" and it was auctioned off in 2014.

http://archive.tcpalm.com/specialty...tion-in-las-vegas-ep-813793544-341298861.html

The artist is Olaf Wieghorst. Still trying to find the episode where Reynolds talked about it!

NoCharge by Sam Posten III, on Flickr

 

[AndyMcKinney]

For those who have been holding out for a lower price on the Featured Guests boxset, you can get it for $59.99 on Amazon, either "fulfilled by Amazon", or through Carson Entertainment themselves.