Complaint to Studios: INCLUDE THE ORIGINAL SOUND MIX! (2 Viewers)

[Neil S. Bulk]

If a Dolby Stereo (surround) track won an Academy Award, don't you at least want the option of being able to hear it!?

Not necessarily. Dolby Stereo was a way of getting surround sound from a 35mm stereo optical track. These films had multi-channel print masters and I'd rather hear that discrete track than a matrix track, provided of course it's the original mix.


And as an aside, in the Dolby Surround era, which let's say ran from 1977-1992, only three films won Best Sound Oscars but didn't have 70mm six-track releases. Those movies were Platoon, Bird and Dances with Wolves.


Neil

 

[Dr Griffin]

Not necessarily. Dolby Stereo was a way of getting surround sound from a 35mm stereo optical track. These films had multi-channel print masters and I'd rather hear that discrete track than a matrix track, provided of course it's the original mix.


And as an aside, in the Dolby Surround era, which let's say ran from 1977-1992, only three films won Best Sound Oscars but didn't have 70mm six-track releases. Those movies were Platoon, Bird and Dances with Wolves.


Neil

OK, how about just nominated? A Star is Born (1976) was supposedly the first film to feature a Dolby mix with L-C-R-S. On the Blu-ray we get a DTS 5.1. If the DTS track sticks to a mono surround, I guess I wouldn't complain as loud, but why not include a Dolby 4.0?

 

[Dr Griffin]

My one and only point


Film released in mono - mono track on home video release - along with any revisionist track

Film released in stereo - stereo track included - " " " "

Film released in Perspecta 3 track - 3 track included " " "

Film released in stereo 4 track - 4.0 included - " " " "

Film released in Dolby Stereo (mono or stereo surrounds) - include pertinent track - " "

And any others etc. along with any correct original directional sounds and dialogue in 6 track for example.

If the film was released decades ago, I have no problem if the 'original' track is lossy. That's just me, others of course, may disagree. I don't mind hearing Dolby matrix tracks as I may have in the theater at the time, or mono surrounds if that was the original mix. I hope this is clear, because I'm done.

 

[DalekFlay]

I definitely pick the original track nine times out of ten. Sometimes the original sounds so limited and rough I do switch though. I recently switched on Nightmare on Elm Street, as the original mix sounded really low-range and weak. The DTS track was much more robust and clear.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Having seen a lot of movies through Dolby's changing formats from the mid 70's through the 90s, I may have the nostalgia factor figuring into it. Those analog original Dolby tracks, though limited in quality comparatively, do hold some interest to me.

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

OK, how about just noninated? A Star is Born (1976) was supposedly the first film to feature a Dolby mix with L-C-R-S. On the Blu-ray we get a DTS 5.1. If the DTS track sticks to a mono surround, I guess I wouldn't complain as loud, but why not include a Dolby 4.0?

You do realize that DTS and Dolby are just digitally encoded formats, right? A 4.0 printmaster can be encoded in either format, and provided they are lossless (which they are nowadays) there will be no difference.


Neil

 

[Tony Bensley]

Tony Bensley, on 23 Aug 2015 - 3:50 PM, said:

While in general, I love the restoration work done on last year's Criterion Blu-ray/DVD combo of A HARD DAY'S NIGHT: 50th Anniversary Edition, I do wish the original non-revised soundtrack had been included, along with the revisionist version that was requested by Director Richard Lester. Yes, I do love the screams in the opening sequence (Among Richard Lester's requests for inclusion in the Criterion release, and apparently was part of his original "vision" for the film!), which I mistakenly assumed were in the original sound mix (They were not!), and the "new" soundtrack in my opinion, has a nice naturalness on the mono soundtrack, but it isn'toriginal!


CHEERS!

It's possible that it was supposed to be in the final mix and for one reason or another it was omitted. The booklet specifically notes that reel one's soundtrack came from an archival print from BFI. I recall that the track without the screams has a strange fade-out at the end of the title song as opposed to the smooth transition on the newer mono track.

Hi Patrick!


I had previously considered the above, the booklet's notes regarding Reel One, in particular.


However, according to some most valued information, courtesy of Bob Furmanek and his brother Ron, the screams should start at the end of the title song, odd as that may seem!


There was much debate about this in the "A Hard Day's Night" 50th Anniversary restoration Criterion blu-ray confirmed... HTF Topic: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/329589-a-hard-days-night-50th-anniversary-restoration-criterion-blu-ray-confirmed/page-6#entry4117376


Take particular note of post #117 (Though the debate picked up again, and carried till #140!), which is on the page that I've linked up!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Dr Griffin]

You do realize that DTS and Dolby are just digitally encoded formats, right? A 4.0 printmaster can be encoded in either format, and provided they are lossless (which they are nowadays) there will be no difference.


Neil

Yes, but the sounding the same part I have seen argued quite a bit. I point out that if a cost issue would keep a track off a disc, an existing lossy would be OK for an original non 5.1 along with a lossless revisionist track. My point about A Star is Born is that we don't get the 4.0 original.

 

[schan1269]

Yes, but the sounding the same part I have seen argued quite a bit. I point out that if a cost issue would keep a track off a disc, an existing lossy would be OK for an original non 5.1 along with a lossless revisionist track. My point about A Star is Born is that we don't get the 4.0 original.

Just because a former 4.0 track now says "5.1" does not mean the rear surround isn't still mono. It also does NOT mean there is any actual info in the .1.

Just like a BD release that now says "whatever" 2.0 and the original track is 1.0. Blu-ray doesn't support 1.0. 2.0 does not automatically mean "stereo". It is likely(and depending the age of the movie...a certainty) dual mono. Just like there is 3-track mono.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Blu-ray doesn't support 1.0.

Yes it does.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Yeah, Criterion may be interested in this 1.0 mono info.

So I guess the reports of altered original mixes are untrue, and I've heard some myself, but apparently I am confused.

 

[schan1269]

I mispoke, there is a thread here* from 2012. Some equipment can't handle 1.0(LPCM or DTS HD-MA), so it is converted to 2.0 mono...reverted back using DPL.

My newest AVR(Onkyo NR1008) via a Panny BD35 or Orei has to use DPL.

*I contributed to that thread...but you can forget stuff in 3 years...and make assumption based on your experience.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Mono is mono, doesn't matter how many speakers it's coming out of. There's still no separation going on there.

 

[Bryan Tuck]

Here's another relevant thread I started a while back:


Blu-rays With Missing Elements in the Primary Audio Track



I almost always watch a film with its original soundtrack if available, but as I talk about in that thread, I can usually deal with a respectful remix as long as there's nothing missing (or, in some cases, added). As technically polished as some remixes are, if they're overly revisionist, I just feel like I'm listening to someone else's fan edit of the movie's soundtrack (particuarly if the original filmmakers aren't involved).


Of course, to be honest, many films have their audio slightly tweaked on the way to home video, just in terms of optimization for smaller spaces, but it's the content differences that bug me (The Terminator being a prime example).


It also gets confusing when a film was originally released with multiple sound mixes. Which is really the filmmakers' preferred version? The one with the most channels, or the one they knew would be seen by the most people? (Of course, with Blu-ray, there's often plenty of room for more than one "original" mix.)

 

[Geoff_D]

I'm a big advocate of having the original audio, but if a remix isn't too sacrilegious then I can live with it, even if there are minor changes.