This is my first post here at HTF so take it easy on me. I would first like to thank Ned for helping me dial in my subs and the kind words. To answer a few questions:
We can definitely try colocating the subs in one corner for testing but they must go back to their respective corners after the testing. As Ned mentioned I have a thing for symmetry. I could try 2 SVS Ultras in each corner for a total of 4 and keep things symetrical . On second thought, that would be crazy but not as crazy as two Contra-bass's or 2 B4s.
As for the Crown K-1 and Samson S-1000. I happen to have both amps. I could try to see if there are differences in sound. I could also throw in a Bryston 4B SST which has similar power ratings in the mix. The Samson is not in use and the Bryston is right beside the Crown so it should be an easy swap.
My room is actually 13.5' wide by 23' deep with an 8' ceiling. So Ned was pretty close in his estimates. The rear back right corner is open to stairwell and other rooms.
The bass in my room is not in your face type sound. In otherwords it is very seemless and you feel it when you should. I also notice more detail or graduations in the lower registers that I did not have before. I put on the original Star Wars yesterday and the THX intro caused the Ultras to bottom out. I checked the levels on my prepro and it was -10 where as we configured the BFD and sub levels for a max reference of -15. I didn't check if the BFD was in the "red". My ears haven't popped from my flight back yesterday so that is why I had the sound cranked. Using the normal reference level everything was cool no bottoming out. I too prefer the 16 Hz tune on the Ultras as I find the bass slightly more refined. The SPLs are still more than sufficient for my room and listening preferences. At one time I was considering bass shakers for my chairs but these may not be needed as you can feel the back of the chair moving slightly with some heavy bass transients.
Here are the subs I have owned and used in this room:
Energy XL-10 (from my second system and has been returned there) Mirage BPS-400 SVS CS 16-46+ with Crown K-1 then later Samson S-1000 Definitive Technologies Super Cube II Velodyne HGS-12 series II SVS Ultra (two) with Crown K-1
I still use the Velodyne HGS-12 but strictly for 2 channel listening. It is located in the middle between the L & R. I am a 2 ch purist and when I run my Bryston Pre Pro in pure 2 ch bypass mode there is no BM so I have the L&R balanced outputs feeding the 4B SST and the unbalanced outputs feeding the HGS-12. I like the control of the HGS-12 and it has enough SPLs for me at the levels I listen to 2 ch music.
The Mirage BPS-400 was sold when I got the CS 16-46+. It is great sub that did its duty for a few years. Because of its dimensions and the way my room is laid out, I couldn't put it in an optimal position.
The Def Tech Super Cube II was used for 2 ch bass assist until I got the HGS-12. When the HGS-12 arrived, the SC II was used as another LFE. It was placed in the middle of the room hidden behind my centre seat on the first row so it basically became an expensive bass shaker. One of my friends is trying it out now as his sub (its amp actually) blew up. Great sub for folks with small rooms and need to hide it. I did try this sub by itself in a bad location (middle of the room) and it had some impact but not enough for me. The low and mid bass freq's didn't have anywhere near the same level of detail as the two Ultras and of course no where near the SPLs or extension. Keep in mind we are comparing apples to oranges.
The SVS 16-46+ is now being test driven by Ned. It was located in a quasi back corner or my room. I would have liked to have put in the front corner but I only had one. Symmmetry folks!
I am extremely pleased with the two SVS Ultras for HT and multichannel music and the Velodyne HGS-12 Series II for 2 ch music. My famous last words "No more upgrades - I'm done". This time I'm serious
If you are in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) do not hesitate to contact me to give the Ultras or HGS-12 a listen.
That THX "Cavalcade" intro can bottom out almost any sub if played loudly enough. My first taste of really bad bottoming out was when I had the old SVS driver in the 20-39CS. The new "improved standard driver (ISD), certainly helped in that regard. Did you have the Ultras back in 16hz tune when they bottomed out? I would think they'd be ok up to some very high SPL's in the 20hz tune.
One thing I wish we had more time with was to try out some multichannel music with the Ultras. I'm sure their smooth response for movies would extend to music also.
Thanks for adding some of your thoughts to the thread, Eric.
Folks, you better check if my pants are on fire! Two more CS Ultras and another K1 have been added to my HT. That's 4 CS Ultras and 2 Crown K1's. The two new additions along with the others are paired and colocated at the front corners of my room. I have not reeq'ed or adjusted anything since adding these additional subs because of time. One kind of strange thing is that the K1 clips a bit more now. It rarely clipped before. I am wondering if this is because both K1's are on the same 20A breaker along with some other power hungry amps (Bryston 4B and 6B SST's) and thus are starving for power? The volume is cranked a bit more than usual because I presently got a cold and really can't hear all that much these past couple days.
In any case, I am still running my preferred 16 Hz tune on all four subs. I feel that I get more impact even at lower volume levels with the additional subs. The chairs, ottomans and riser shake a lot more now with the addition of these subs. The Pod race is just crazy (this scene causes the most clipping especially when the engines start up at the beginning). I turned down the volume so there is no clipping and it is still plenty loud and has tremendous impact. Small nuances in the engine noise are still noticeable while you are still being enveloped with bass all around you. I usually don't buy movies because of specific scenes but now I may have to add U571, Matrix Reloaded and the Lion King to my collection. I can happily say that I am now a basshead convert.
My famous last words "No more upgrades - I'm done". This time I'm serious!
Folks, you better check if my pants are on fire! Two more CS Ultras and another K1 have been added to my HT. That's 4 CS Ultras and 2 Crown K1's.
One kind of strange thing is that the K1 clips a bit more now. It rarely clipped before. I am wondering if this is because both K1's are on the same 20A breaker along with some other power hungry amps (Bryston 4B and 6B SST's) and thus are starving for power? __________________________________________________ ________
Congrats, dude! Now I know am not the only SVS bassaholic around 'fer sure!...
Am surprised you haven't tripped the 20 amp breaker with all those amps operating simultaneously! Yes, your amps are being "starved" to death! So is time to consider running a dedicated AC line (perhaps with 10 ga. wiring or maybe even larger, and 30-40 amp breaker subpanel...if your existing AC power facilities allows it) with which to power up all your audio/video equipment and nothing else... :wink:
"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
Actually Frank was disagreeing with Rob Bird (and by default agreeing with Eric).
Frank is well aware that four co-located Ultras will outperform a single B4-Plus below 25 Hz. More internal volume, way more port, and a better driver. Above 25 Hz the contest would get more interesting, as the push/pull alignment of the B4+ offers some unique advantages the quad Ultras would lack.
If you split up the Ultras into different corners of the room, you would lose the coupling effect and all bets would be off with respect to max output vs. a single B4+.
Well, the powered version of the B4+ (the PB-Plus/4) is due sometime in '05....that would be a good excuse for a review. The powered version will undoubtedly feature variable phase, a custom EQ curve and HPF to compliment each tune, and a sophisticated amp limiter. I would guess 1800-2000 watts continuous would be about the sweet spot for that amp.
The nice thing about the B4+ is it "only" weighs about 200 pounds and is still manageable (with help) to move around, despite its monstrous output capabilities. Expect 120-125 dB @ 10% THD @ 2M GP in the >30 Hz region, and I'd bet on 115 dB at 25 Hz.
Regardless, we've got a few subs being lined up now (not the least of which is the highly anticipated Rocket UFW-12), but we hope to make a lot more arrangements at CES for more reviews the spring/summer/fall of '05.
So this is where all the crazy bass heads are hiding out?
Nice write up Ned. Interesting reading for myself as I have been in Andy's and Eric's rooms.
Mark: Nice to know a ContraBass can be laid on it's side. Which orientation would be best for a single CB? Drivers firing side to side or front and rear? I am currently beefing up the existing 2x4" wood stud, 1/2" drywall walls with a layer of Green Glue and a layer of 5/8" drywall but your comments about Andy's long and narrow room have me concerned as I am even narrower, at similar height but longer length (think bowling alley ). Can you expend upon that and what the potential problems could be? I will be using a QSC DSP-3 with a single CB.