Columbia to go completely Blu-ray by 2005 (from DavisDVD) (1 Viewer)

[DaViD Boulet]

BluRay? I say "Bring it on!"

Then we can buy Lawrence of Arabia on BluRay and see the ringing from all that EE in high-definition glory! Those edge halos will be so smoothly rendered around all those silouettes and sky-lines I can hardly wait!! I love to see all that great color-timing on the latest transfer really hi-lighted by tracing everything with outlines! Almost like a coloring book!! This post has more exlaimation points than an ebay-item description!

In any case...I'll be buying the Fifth Element yet again...

 

[Johnny G]

Playstation 3 eh?

I'm sure you can say PS2 made some contribution to the blanket acceptance of DVD so this sure is good news.

No doubt everyone will fire in with "what did you expect from Sony? Remember Betamax & Minidisc"!!!

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

There is also a very good chance that the Xbox2 will have an HD-DVD drive in it. Seeing as Microsoft will not let Sony release the PS3 before Xbox2 you are looking at a late 2005 launch. That is potential for an instant install base of HD-DVD players as well. So this could get very interesting.

 

[Mark Oates]

I'm baffled that any Hollywood Studio (even one whose short and curlies are in the grip of an electronics multinational parent company) would back a new technology presenting the consumer with a copy of a movie that's on a level with having their own pristine 35mm print. I mean, they get so bent out of shape over the piracy issue and yet according to Blu-ray, content protection is an issue outside the final specification. I'd have thought Hollywood wouldn't get on board until there was a cast-iron, no-picture-on-the-screen-until-the-credit-card's-in-the-slot content protection system. And the way everybody's talking I don't get the impression that's been sorted.

That's an invitation to be proved wrong, incidentally, if anybody's in the mood for an online barbecue of yours truly.

 

[Grant H]

Okay, I have no grudge against Sony or Blu-Ray, nor do I have any reason to be in love with the DVD Forum or HD-DVD, but this is how I see things:

I WILL NOT buy into (unless it's the only option EVER or its PROVEN superior) a new HD format that employs a codec as outdated as MPEG-2. It just seems too silly. MP2 has been around a LONG time. It was being used on the satellite systems before DVD ever hit. I cannot believe there isn't something better today. Blu-Ray will continue to gloat it has more raw storage capacity than HD-DVD withount accounting for the fact they're using an old compression algorithm meaning when HD-DVD chooses a new system for use on a disc with only slightly less bit storage capacity, HD-DVD will actually be able to hold more high quality real content, possibly much more.

It may not bode so well that Blu-Ray appears (from what I've read anyway) to be ahead of HD-DVD on launching their product. However, I think it may truly be a GOOD thing that HD-DVD is actually still working and trying to make it as good as it can be. I'm sure they'll do their best to kick it in high gear and try to play catch up and I hope they do get caught up. I guess the forum is meeting again April 6th.

As of now, it looks like Blue-Ray just wants to get their product on the shelves and try to take hold of the market before a potentially better product is ready to compete. I really hope both products can hit at the same time to level the playfield and limit the confusion that has clearly all ready mounted (just read this thread.)

I'm actually glad Microsoft will likely supply "a" or "the" codec for HD-DVD because Microsoft will be able to stand up to Sony's "in" with the PS3 by using HD-DVD in a next-gen X-Box. Microsoft will want their label on as much software as possible, period, to make its money. So, I can see it helping to promote HD-DVD on the X-Box pretty hard if it has to help it play "catch-up" to Blue-Ray.

It is upsetting that we're going to see a format war with the HD market not well established. Most people I know don't even know what SACD or DVD-A is. Still, more people have decent audio receivers than HDTV's I wager. I don't see them becoming mainstream any time soon, but hopefully they'll stick around for those who appreciate them. Segmenting the HD market looks bad for both sides looking to profit. Then again, perhaps the format war IS good for the videophile, but only if Blue-Ray doesn't get a fast upper-hand. I'd hate to see what to me looks like a better thought-out HD format not have a chance just because Blu-Ray was quicker out of the gates and had more companies backing it. Hopefully, HD-DVD will catch up and the consumer, be it the high-end consumer or otherwise, can pick the better and surviving format.

I don't see how Blu-Ray can be better using MPEG-2, but if a finalized Blu-Ray movie could be shown to me in comparison to a finalized HD-DVD movie, I'd go with whichever looked and sounded better. If I couldn't tell a difference, I'd pick the one that could fit the most content on a disc. This is all assuming the costs would be similar. If Blu-Ray discs sold for $60 a pop and HD-DVD's for $30 and Blu-Ray wasn't notably better the decision would be that much easier (I'd buy the cheaper one) and vice versa.

What I've seen printed so far makes it sound like HD-DVD will be easier/cheaper to replicate. Then again, if Blu-Ray gets a head start, repication costs could come down by the time HD-DVD steps up to the plate. OR maybe there is no difference in production cost or Blu-Ray is actually cheaper to produce. Obviously, if Blu-Ray penetrated the market first it could drop prices as more units sold. This again, could make it tough for HD-DVD if it started late and had to sell things at higher prices with not only no established market of their own, but a competitor out there with an established market and lower prices. This could doom HD-DVD out of the gates whether or not it's superior.

Please, let both sides get their stuff out there at the same time.

 

[Brian-W]

It'll never get to this point...

 

[Dave H]

So, let me get something clear.

Many of the DVDs we buy are downconverted from high definitions transfers. So, when HD-DVD comes out, we will be seeing the EXACT same transfers again (obviously in HD)?
So, we are stuck with the edge enhancement, etc. only to be even more clearly defined? I doubt most studios are going to go out of their way to do new transfers for the current HD transfers they have,

 

[Brian]

Personally, I hope that Blu-Ray flourishes simply because it holds more data. Most of you seem to be focused on the stand-alone movie players, but I also extensively use DVD-R's for burning data on computers. For this use, HD-DVD has NO advantage over Blu-Ray, plus the recorders are already out in Japan, so Blu-Ray is much further along technologically.

There will also be nothing preventing manufacturers from releasing players that support advanced codecs on Blu-Ray discs, just like DVD players are being released now that support DivX.

Whatever format we end up with will probably be around for a long time, and it will be much easier to change the software in the players to support a different codec than it will be to support a different media.

 

[Cassy_w]

Are we sure Blue Ray Movie releases will be MPEG2? Is there anything OFFICIAL on this?

Blue Ray recording would have to be MPEG2, because that is what used for OTA HD, HBO, Showtime, HDNet, etc.

 

[Dan Brecher]

Cassy, yes it's official. The most recent example of proof that I know of is from a good interview conducted by DVD Talk with Michael Fiddler of the Blu Ray group earlier in the year about the format, in which MPEG II was again confirmed.

You can listen to the interview here in which Fiddler defends the decision. It is worth noting that more efficient codecs have not been ruled out for consideration sometime into Blu-Ray's life (Fiddler even admits this), but unless they make a radical change this year, it seems clear that Blu-Ray will entirely be MPEG II based at launch for everything including it's pre recorded content.

Obviously the MPEG II issue has not been met with much favour from a lot of people, and I'd figure a sudden switch from MPEG II to something like WM9 a year into the format's life may be met with even less favour if the more efficient codec happens to better the results of MPEG II. [I doubt many would be too pleased if supporting studios then re-visit all their MPEG II based releases and did WM9 versions].

Dan (UK)

 

[Jay Pennington]

The story doesn't seem to be on davisdvd anymore. So was it an April Fool's joke or not?

 

[GlennH]

No. It's a real story. Here's another story which thedigitalbits.com linked to the other day.

 

[DanR]

Everyone should read the article by Gary Reber in the lastest issue of Widescreen Review. In fact, it should be REQUIRED reading before posting to this thread.

Regards,
Dan

 

[Cassy_w]

Why?

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

For those that like links:

The Future Of Prerecorded HD Formats: Competing HD DVD And BD Blue Laser Formats by Gary Reber
(you'll have to be an online subscriber to read the complete article)

The article is also published in the most recent issue of Widescreen Review (Issue #83):


Also, (click here) for a transcript of the on-screen conversation between Gary Reber and Sony’s Michael Fidler, Senior Vice President of the Blu-ray Disc Group, on the development of the Blu-ray Disc HD Format Standard which took place on July 8, 2003 at the Widescreen Review facilities in Temecula, California.

Also, (click here) for a transcript of the on-screen conversation between Gary Reber and Hisashi Yamada, Fellow Technology Officer at the Digital Media Network Company division of Toshiba Corporation, Ryoichi (Rick) Hayatsu, Chief Manager of the 1st Storage Products Division of NEC Corporation, and Jodi Sally, Marketing Director of the Digital A/V Group at Toshiba America Consumer Products Inc. which took place on August 29, 2003 at Laser Pacific, leading high-definition post production facility in Los Angeles, California.

(the transcript is the third post on that thread)

Speaking of which, the entire thread, AOD vs Blu-ray revisited... is worth reading for more insights and opinions regarding the future of Hi-Def DVD, both as playback and recorder.

 

[PeterTHX]

GAWD DANGIT Nils.

Subscriber link.

Interview with Reber's bullshit shilling for DTS. With innacuracies like older decoders can't resolve beyond 576kbps, when ALL Dolby AC-3 decoders can decode 640kbps...even my old Yamaha DDP-1, one of the EARLIEST standalone AC-3 decoders can do 640kbps. I seem to recall that it was DTS that needed firmware updates or decoder replacement to cope with 754kbps DTS on DVD.

OR:
WSR Reber: Well, everyone knows that the DTS Coherent Acoustics Coding (CAC) technology is better sounding than Dolby® Digital. So, why would there be any hesitancy not to automatically include DTS, as well as Dolby Digital? I am not saying not to have Dolby Digital; I am just saying why not include DTS as well?

Hayatsu: That is a process now under continuing discussion. There is performance-testing going on right now to confirm that DTS is superior. Everyone knows this to be the truth, but we need evidence and positive data to make the decision.

WSR Reber: You need evidence that DTS sounds better then Dolby Digital?

Hayatsu: Yes, we need the evidence.

WSR Reber: Read our reviews in every issue of Widescreen Review and listen for yourself.

Sally: I don’t think that is exactly what he means. It really is being tested and it is very likely to be included in the standard because it is under discussion.

WSR Reber: Because it is a superior
system?

Gawd, the nerve. Can anyone take this windbag seriously anymore? This is EXACTLY the reason I refuse to subscribe. I don't want the DTS Newsletter. I want Widescreen Review.

 

[DanR]

Peter, put your bad blood regarding DTS vs DD behind you.

The article on Blue Ray and HD-DVD is a very good summary from a technical standpoint etc. There's just a lot of people posting in this thread who are mis-informed.

Regards,
Dan

 

[PeterTHX]

I agree somewhat Dan, but I must apologize. Reber's DTS rants when talking to industry professionals are tiring. I find it hard to believe he is able to say the ENTIRE DTS spec during an interview. Gotta be added to the transcrips.

His point of view colors the situation somewhat and I can't rely on him for "clean" facts about either format. I remember his interview with Joe Kane shortly after DVD came out (the one in a diner). He said basically DVD was too "pedestrian" and wanted a niche format for the hardcore, like LaserDisc was.

 

[Kai Zas]

Glad I'm an HTPC user. I'll just pop in one of those blue-ray drives, alongside my old dvd-drive. After a while I'll probably get HD-DVD too. After that, the first combo-drives will appear, just like it did with CD, CDR, DVD-R and DVD+R.

I'm sure I won't be replacing my entire collection, even if new HD versions become available, just the bigger titles that realy benefit from it. (My projector can't do more that 960*540 anyway, so no problems there. Once I get the upgrade-itch in that department, I might replace more titles.)

Let it come! Technology should become available as soon as possible. It'll be the "laserdic" of the 00's for a while, for the high-end market. They're stuck with those digital tapes at the moment and those, to me, seem like a step back.

 

[Richard Paul]

Personally I don't see how both high definition optical formats could survive side by side. Either Blu-ray or HD-DVD will end up losing much in the same way that VHS and Betamax couldn't both win. It is to early to tell which one will win but I predict that ten years from now one of them will have failed commercially.