College Police group get taser happy on annoying Florida student (2 Viewers)

[Scott L]

Physical force can cause injuries. Accidental injuries to the person being subdued, even when justified, can cause policemen/women to be reprimanded and even get the police force sued. Not to mention a dislocated arm hurts much longer than a 5-sec tase.

Tasering is a much better way to assure the person will stop resisting while minimizing physical injury.

 

[Paul Padilla]

The grandstand was in full bloom before he was even asked to back off the first time. Meyer made sure of that. Anyone who has ever had to try to control a struggling, full sized man knows that it is much harder than we might think...even for 4 people.

 

[JohnS]

There's a GREAT music video just made called "Don't tase me Bro!"



T-shirts, magnets and buttons are now being sold with "Don't tase me bro"

This kid who got tased, is a pranker! check out his website.
He even asked a female friend of his to videotape the whole process from when he stepped up to the mike, to whatever happens to him

 

[KurtEP]

It looked like one officer picked him up and carried him for a while. They didn't seem to be having an unusually hard time with him. I might buy the argument if he was a meth crazed 250 pound psycho, but this case is different.

Also, I agree that it's hard to control someone who is struggling. It's even harder if they have any idea what they are doing (watch some video of Judoka trying to throw Kyuzo Mifune, the 10th dan, for a good example of the soft trumping the hard). On the other hand, this is their job, and they should be prepared to do it, especially when they know they are on video.

 

[Patrick_S]

I think the police used excessive force but who didn’t laugh at “Don’t tase me bro!” That was comedy gold.

As for the kid, he does have a history of strange acts. The day Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows was released he made a big sign that contained a major spoiler and then proceeded to stand on a busy street corner displaying the sign. Now really, what the heck was he trying to accomplish by doing this other then being a prick. Heck I might have tasered him for that stunt.

 

[ThomasC]

Here's another perspective from the Daily Kos:

"I was at the Kerry speech today, sitting 2 rows away from all the action. I'll let you know how it really went down.

The forum was going to be over at 2 pm, and Kerry spoke for so long that the Q and A portion had to be shortened. He only got through about 7 of the 50 people who were waiting to ask questions. While the final question was being read, some douchebag ran down the aisle, grabbed the mic from the other side of the room, interrupted the kid who was talking, and started yelling at Kerry, demanding that his questions be heard. He started ranting about how Kerry talks in circles or something, and everyone was getting annoyed. The cops are all over him in no time and try to escort him out, but he starts yelling and resisting. Kerry insists that they let him stay and even agrees to answer his question.

After the interrupted guy's question was answered, Kerry keeps his promise and lets the angry guy talk. This is the point where people started taking their cameras and phones out. All the videos floating around youtube start around here. You can see in the videos that his questioning gets kind of inappropriate, so somebody cut his mic. Instead of shutting up, he starts yelling and making an even bigger scene. He struggled all the way up the aisle, and started violently trying to free himself. They threatened to taze him and he wouldnt stop fighting, so he got tazed. They only had to arrest him because he was causing a disruption and wouldn't leave peacefully. He wasn't being silenced for asking tough questions, trust me.

It's a shame that they had to taze the guy, but he had a chance to calm down and didn't take it. He probably didn't pose a physical threat to anybody in the room, but someone can't just hijack the floor of a forum like that and expect not to get kicked out. This wasn't some poor guy who was brutalized for trying to ask some tough questions. He's just an obnoxious guy who had a fit when there wasn't time for his questions and refused to be calm even when he was given the chance to speak. He was looking for trouble, and everyone applauded when he was forced to leave.

Nothing pisses me off more than hearing stories about power tripping cops abusing their power, unnecessarily tazing or arresting people, etc. It's a huge problem and I'm glad it's being discussed. Just don't mistake this for one of those cases."

 

[TravisR]

I agree completely.

 

[Carlo_M]

If Kos's account above is true, then I do not believe the police used undue force.

 

[KurtEP]

According to this account, there were six officers on him, and they are only authorized to taze someone if they are in danger of physical harm:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...NEWS/709190388

There's no question that he was struggling, but it's hard to argue you're in danger when you have six to one odds and have the guy pinned on the ground, struggling or not. I didn't see anything in the videos I watched that I'd describe as fighting, no fists, elbows or anything like that from either side.

The annoying thing about all of this is that tazing him probably makes it less likely that he'll get some kind of real punishment for what he was doing. I'm in no way fond of prankster type kids who think it's cute to start a disturbance like this. I thinks some sort of disciplinary action is necessary. I just don't think using a weapon against someone like that is appropriate under these circumstances.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I can see with my own eyes that he was being silenced long before he even had the chance to resist arrest. First you have to do something to be arrested for. Who wouldn't resist just being hauled off to jail for no reason? The cops created the reason. Isn't that entrapment?

He wanted attention, he wanted a case like this. Kerry probably wouldn't have given it to him but these moron cops were only too happy to comply.

 

[ThomasC]

He was being disruptive; he interrupted the person talking to Kerry so he could ask his own questions. Kerry answered his questions, and then his questions started to get inappropriate. He was an obvious disruption and uncooperative with the police.

Again:

"someone can't just hijack the floor of a forum like that and expect not to get kicked out. This wasn't some poor guy who was brutalized for trying to ask some tough questions. He's just an obnoxious guy who had a fit when there wasn't time for his questions and refused to be calm even when he was given the chance to speak. He was looking for trouble, and everyone applauded when he was forced to leave."

I'm trusting that account to be true; if not, then I might change my opinion.

 

[Steve Ridges]

Your seriously saying the kid did nothing here?! He disrupted the meeting and refused to obey law enforcement officials. The cops executed their job perfectly. The gave him numerous chances to comply with their request and he refused. Tasers are perfect for situations like this. It poses little to no risk to the perpetrator, zero risk to bystanders, is quick, quiet, and effective.

 

[cafink]

No, this is not, in fact, what tasers are for. They are to be used only when physical force is necessary to protect oneself or others from harm, which was clearly not the case here--again, the student was outnumbered by the officers, who had already brought him down and subdued him. He posed no danger at the time he was tasered.

 

[JamesED]

He was still kicking and screaming, even after being cuffed. He could have injured himself or the officers trying to remove him, dislocated shoulders, etc. The kid was still attempting to resist arrest, hence the taser. Did you notice he was removed much easier after the taser? Did you notice the number of warnings you can clearly hear them giving him?

He also deserved being arrest. When he was being escorted (removed from the forum) by the first two officers, he thrashes quite violently and heads back toward Kerry. By doing so, he greatly, greatly escalated the situtation. Either this kid really wanted the attention, and/or is truly an insane rambling, tactless idiot.

 

[Nathan*W]

You are mistaken about the role of Tasers in Police work. The phrase, "They are to be used only when physical force is necessary to protect oneself or others from harm" is applicable to firearm use, not tazers. Tazers are used at the same force level as OC/mace for a resisting suspect. Some police departments will even use the taser before using hard hand techniques to subdue a resisting suspect.

 

[Paul Padilla]

 

[Jordan_E]

Note to self: Don't ever call policeman holding Taser "Bro"!

 

[KurtEP]

Did they politely ask him to leave? I thought that they switched off his mic and tried to drag him out. From what I remember (can't get the vid to load as I write this, so I may be wrong), they initiated contact from behind.

You suggest that the fact that six officers could not get a second hand cuffed is an indication of how violent he was. I think a more reasonable explanation is that these officers are not really well trained in restraining people and hence fell back on what they had available, a taser, when they couldn't accomplish what they wanted.

That's one of the better arguments against things like tasers. When you have one, every problem starts looking like one that could be solved using a taser. Restraints and grappling (stand up or ground) take practice, lots of it, to be good. One wonders how often these officers trained to maintain their skills, if they ever do.

 

[JamesED]

So you suggest that it is a better idea to use these grapples to subdue him versus tasering him? You do realize that the taser is only a temporary stun, whereas a grapple cause serious harm to either him or an officer?

 

[KurtEP]

We don't appear to be on the same page here. Grappling includes trying to control a person's body movement through grips and holds of various kinds. I am not speaking of using hooks.

What the officers were attempting to do prior to tasing him was grappling. They were apparently not very good at it. Grappling can be dangerous, but since it is a first resort in many cases, the officers should be proficient. Typical grappling systems include things like Judo, Brazilian Jujitsu, Aikido, Aikijutsu and so on. The primary danger with Aikijutsu and its relatives like Aikido are broken limbs to the person being grappled, since many of the holds involve twisting the limb to an uncomfortable point, causing the victim to submit. Many of these can be followed through the break the arm or dislocate the shoulder. Judo and BJJ often involve chokes and strangles which can easily kill someone if held too long. There is a lot of overlap between systems.

That said, the point of most of these systems is to not hurt the person, but simply to make them comply. Kills and breaks are available, but I don't know that they'd even be taught in police training. Many holds put the individual in only minimal danger. A lot of the people I know who practiced the traditional variants of these systems are bouncers or police officers. They work quite well, but they require practice.